Horse owners need options for humane disposal of animal

Just this week I was contacted that a donkey and a pony had been dumped on a rural road and that the locals were asking if anyone would take them. The local animal control was contacted and refused to pick them up because they did not have the money to take care of them. The last that I heard, someone had finally taken them in. In the 4+ years since the closing of the processing facilities, I have turned down over 60 free horses. I have been contacted and asked to help place herds as large as 25 horses that the owners can not afford to feed and can not get anyone to buy.

I know of horses being shot and left dead in the road ditch and people coming home to find 2-3 horses turned into their pastures. There are state parks where trail riders complain of stray horses following them around and coming back to camp with them. And yet the anti-slaughter crowd claims that there is no unwanted horse problem.

The anti-slaughter delegation will tell you that it is all because of the economy and has nothing to do with closing of the processing facilities. Cavel closed in May of 2007, in my area, we saw the family horse/trail ride horses begin crashing by July/August of that year. The US economy hit the skids in the fall of 2008, more than a year later. The American horse industry had a perfect storm, we could have weathered one of these issues and had time to adapt, but both of these catastrophies together have not allowed us time to financially adapt and have crushed many horse related businesses.

Well said Shelia!

Ms Welty- I have an issue with your statement. First off, if slaughter went away in 2007, how come almost exactly the same number of horses 100-140k a year are still being shipped to Mexico and Canada to be slaughtered? You yourself said it “tied to posts hoping someone will take them in”. That says to me that the owners really do not want to use the auction/killbuyers/slaughter as their method of resolving their financial issues. Auction the horse off they might get a few bucks back. Abandon it and they could face legal action. For those horses that are being abandonded (and the number is wildly overstated) it sure looks like they are saying that they do not want their horses going to slaughter. Also, if you had not noticed, the economy has gone to crap since 2007. People and animals are losing their homes all over the nation. The bubble burst and many were left dazed and confused. The current situation has NOTHING to do with horsemeat inspections being defunded in the US. It has EVERYTHING to do with the economy. It has affected virtually every industry and every American. Many businesses and individuals have realized they have to make changes to keep up with the changing world. Others cry that they miss the good old days and refuse to rethink their business models. A flourishing economy hid a multitude of sins.
As far as the horses go, the fact of the matter is that both the pro and anti slaughter sides want the same thing- less horses. With the current economic climate, less disposable income for individuals mean less people can afford horses. Consequently, less horses are needed for people to buy. At issue is how that goal is accomplished. One side says let everyone do whatever they want and keep breeding because its their right to do that. They say we will just kill them if they are the wrong color, if they arent fast enough, if we overproduced, if the mares are barren, etc, etc, etc…Any reason works. Having slaughter as an option is alot easier than actually managing your business and making responsible choices and decisions. The other side says stop reproducing them at a rate that exceeds the number of people able to afford them. Clearly decreasing production is the way to go. Does that mean production needs to stop altogether- no. Does it mean that horses should only be produced for which there is a demand? Yes. Here is why- if a horse is never born, you never have to pay to feed it. You never have to pay stud fees. You never have to pay the vet, farrier or trainers. You never spend money you no longer have on all the things horse people do. Some will argue that not paying for these things hurts the economy. Not so. Not creating these horses will put money back into the pockets of the people who are now saying they can no longer afford their horses. If these horses without a buyer are never born, the owners dont have to pay for any horse related expenses at all. End result- they save money. In addition, because there will be less competiton for resources such as hay and grain, demand will be less, so the price will drop. This will put money back into the pockets of everyone who is feeding their horses. Again supply and demand. I for one certainly would not mind seeing my hay and grain prices drop.

Nency, These numbers of abandoned,starven,out n out neglected horses are not just drawn out of a hat.yes horses are being shiped to mexico and Canada for slaughter for now, the HSUS and other AR groups are trying to get that stoped also, then whats gana happen. America should be makeing the money off these horse and people here should have these jobs.Up here in Ohio you can go to an auction anyday of the week and buy cattle,horse,goats,ect. at the same auction, out in oklahoma you can’t.cattle have thier own auctions,as do horses and it not everyday and horse auctions are not in every town or county for that matter.Inalot of places it is illegal to put down your own horse, you have to have a vet come out then you have to pay for the haul off you can’t just burry it on your property, this runs into hundreds of dollars people can’t afford.You say there are programs to help with the cost of putting your animal down,what programs and what states.you say the pro and anti slaughter groups want the same thing,wrong, the pro want horse owners to have an option, the anti do not, the anti want horses classified as pets to where the ritch can only afford to have one they want them chiped, tracked, regulated, they want to controll what you do with your own animal.Horses are livestock not pets and should be treated as such.

Just so you know, to sell a horse at a sale barn is not free,you say people turn thier horse out because they don’t want them to go to slaughter,,maybe its cause they can’t afford the gas,the fee at the sale barn or the coggins the horse has to have.if a horse has a tick on it when it reaches the mexico border it will be turned back, and if AR groups care so much about the population of horses why do they hang around sale barns,so call rescue 20 year old lame or blind horses that have no value or quality of life and then ask for donations to care for this horse before they even get it home.Why don’t they just let the animal go to slaughter then they might have room to take in other horses that actualy need rescued that do have quality of life left.

Nancy, I don’t know where it is you live but I’m here to tell you the number are not only real but are most likely under the true numbers. And yes it is because of the closure, as it begain BEFORE the recession. I run a rescue and before the closures we would get in horses rehab them and get them home in less than a year. We always had room for more, but now we get them in and they stay. No-one wants them and yes the ression has it’s part but we see many cases that never see the press, or numbers, of horse left, shot, turned out, and just starved. I get call every single week of animls people don’t want any more with comments of “if you don’t come and get them we will shoot them”. When told to take them to auction we are told “we don’t have a trailer”- “why it costs more to take them and run them trough than we will get back”- “we did and NOONE bought them” and my favorite “we can’t afford the Vet to put them down and the fee to send them to the renderer” . Before the closure people took unwanted, yes sometimes for very minor issues to slaughter, and unlike this country, the meat which is high in omega 3 fatty acids was eaten. Not only by people but by animals as horse meat is sought after by zoo and rehabs for big cats. We, horsey people, may not like it but horses are livestock. They are raised in some places as a meat source a valued one. And yes slaughter reduces the numbers, and yes reducing breeding is the ideal solution, but what of the older horses and the lame, a quick death is what we all want for our friends. After they are gone, why should they rot in the ground or be sent to render, when they can feed something else. That is a better solution, and the kill buyers are NOT buying these horses anymore, as like mentioned above there are so many horses showing up at the boarders that they are not taking anything but the best, ie: the unwanted race horses, the money losers, the lame show horse in other words the ones that were the majority before. Sening to render or sending to slaughter is really the same, and in our area you can not bury them as in a lot of places so which is worse? Have you ever seen a Euthinasia go bad because the horse is comprmized I have and it is horrible for everyone conserned, when it could have been avoided. Blanket statments about slaughter being bad and only bad peope do it, are wrong there are many reasons slaughter houses are prefered and many vets agree and would tell peole to send/take their horse to slaughter rather than have them “put them down”.

“Poorly bred horses can result in anatomical defects that can dramatically hinder quality of life or even result in a shortened lifespan. Poor conformation is the result of bad genes, stressful living conditions and poor diet. All too often conformation is overlooked in favor of color, and the result can be detrimental to the health of the horse. A horse with conformational defects is very likely to pass those defects along to offspring, limiting the animal’s appeal to future buyers.”

Many of the horses in rescues today have health and/or confrontational flaws which require spenditures in additional to “general maintenance” of a horse. By opening the slaughter houses we are allowed an outlet for lower quality animals to be disposed of, thus creating a home for a horse who will thrive.

We at United Horseman believe wholeheartedly in this statement: http://www.facebook.com/groups/unitedhorsemen/

Billie Welty: Nancy’s points are absolutely valid. The economy and overbreeding have caused the problem, not closure of the kill plants. I have read at least three studies that show no correlation between the plants being closed and the numbers of abandoned and/or starving horses. In fact, in California alone, the numbers have actually decreased since closing the plants! And, all reports show that the number of horses being killed has not diminished. This is propaganda from the pro-slaughter people who want to line their pockets and continue breeding while dumping horses that are not “perfect”. Horse meat is toxic, yet pro-slaughter people want to feed it to our kids in school lunches or provide it to soup kitchens! Canada and Mexico ship this toxic meat to Europe and Asia where there is a huge market for horse meat; however, it was banned for use in pet food as far back as the 1970s! What does that tell you? Slaughter is inhumane and the treatment of these horses is atrocious. Just watch some of the videos taken at the Mexico slaughter houses. Pro-slaughter people claim these to be “fake” — those horses must be darned good actors!! Some advocates claim to have visited the kill plant in Canada and “all was perfectly appropriate”. What they have said is that they NEVER witnessed any horse kills there. There were escorted through a plant after having announced their arrival and saw nothing of what really goes on. Wake up! Stop killing anything and everything simply because breeders won’t act responsibly!

Correction: Regarding visiting the kill plant in Canada: “…what they have NOT said, is that they NEVER witnessed a kill….”

Slaughter is for food production. It is not the place to send excess or “unwanted” animals of any species. Food animals must be raised as such from birth. If there is such a callous disregard for food production and food safety with our horses, one can only imagine why there have been so many recalls with our acceptable food sources that are supposedly raised and regulated as food animals.

Vicki, as you know, Cavel did close for several weeks before they where granted their temporary stay for the appeal which they lost. As you say on your own website,”March 29, 2007- A federal district court ordered the U.S. Department of Agriculture to stop inspecting horses about to be slaughtered at the Cavel International slaughter plant, effectively closing the last operating horse slaughtering operation in the United States. The order was stayed pending appeal, allowing Cavel to temporarily reopen.” Cavel was closed down and when they did reopen for a short time during the appeal, they were operating on a limited bases because as you pointed out, they were already transferring operations to Canada.

You are also ignoring the Texas closures. Even before Illinois banned slaughter in that state, horses were being shipped enmass to Mexico & Canada. Even if Cavel had remained open, there was no way that they could have serviced 100,000+ horses a year.

I still noticed that you are not addressing the issue of unwanted horses-the ones being abandoned or starving in pastures. And closing the processors here in the US has not stopped the slaughter market, you have only made these horses have to endure long trailor rides to Canada & Mexico.

Vicki: Agree. Shelia: Since we have continued to kill 100,000 horses, your argument is not logical. The problem then is NOT closing the plants but overbreeding! Obviously, if you eliminate the same number of horses as before, there should be the same number remaining. The economy and overbreeding are driving the current situation. Studies have shown that there is no more starvation and abandonment than before the plants were closed! In fact, the numbers in California have decreased. The argument from the pro-slaughter people is false logic and study after study have proven them wrong. In addition, aside from the USDA not inspecting the horses, some plants were actually closed because of violations of NEPA and they cannot be opened until those violations are resolved and the necessary environmental impact studies are conducted and presented for public review and comment.

What I’m dieing to ask is??? Why are the only two options, are starving, or slaughter? That has been the theme of Pro-Slaughter people for a long long time, why is that?

Trinity Lakes Ranch
https://www.facebook.com/groups/187930951278235/doc/190897464314917/….. This a list of Stallions and owners who have donated breeding’s to their stallions to our effort to raise money to bring hay to the Wildfire victims in Texas. We hope you can support this effort by bidding on these breeding’s. The bid is also tax deductible

Here’s your real problem. This is one of your buddies, Philip Kasharis, right? He’s what fundraising for horse out in Bastrop TX, and yet storing all the hay and 2 tons of pellets in his barn, right?

So, we breed more horses, that can go to slaughter as healthy two years old, because someone now can’t feed them. Do you think maybe on a down market, you might STOP BREEDING FOR JUST A BIT. Give the market a chance to recover. As I’ve always said, what would you think of a Developer that continues to Build MORE houses on a down market? Hard to have empathy for that person, isn’t it. Not to mention we might want to question the IQ of that person, or their motives. What are your motives in all of this?

The problem is economy, as is for any other industry right now, don’t ya think? Then there is the OVER Breeding, then there is the UN accountability for this BAD BUSINESS DECISION. I’m guessing they just don’t know how to make a living any other way? So, they keep breeding, and the cycle goes on and on and on.

If horse slaughter were to re-open in this country it won’t solve your problems the way you think it will. The major purchasers of horse meat are changing the rules for what they will accept as the world becomes more aware of food safety issues. EU is moving quickly to an all passport system. Canada is trying to implement EID tracking of all horses from birth with vets recording treatments in a centralized database.

If horse slaughter were to be allowed again, some businessman would open a plant and start working to make the highest profit possible to pay back his investment. He would find the highest paying markets for the meat and work towards qualifying for their standards. As he tightened the standards on his supply, he would have to raise the price paid for the horses to fill the market.

With a good price paid for food horses some REAL livestock producers would move away from cattle and to horse production and do it right for the food chain. Top livestock producers are familiar with following drug protocols and getting third party verification to prove the safety of the product they raise. They would breed for meat quality, fast growth and superior health so they could raise the horses drug free. Any horses that had to be medicated would be removed from the food chain and turned over to a trainer to get salvage value as a potential riding horse. If you think your old, lame, skinny, can’t-sell-them-anywhere-else horses are going to find an outlet in the food supply think again.

The world of food production had changed in the last decade and horse meat producers are playing catch up. Food safety and verification are becoming very important. We are quickly moving to a time when many food products can be traced to the producer who raised them. Europe is ahead of the US in this aspect. While some horse meat in Europe traces to the breeder who raised it, American slaughter horses are still getting in through false documentation via the kill buyer.

American livestock producers are capable of producing food quality horses, and if the price is right some of them will. The food horse rejects will be competing with your “unwanted horses” for a new homes, and all will be competing for the same feed supply.

Don’t kid yourself about horse slaughter solving your problems, it will only add to them.

Brenda lee, what exactly have you done to help the wildfire victems,, Diana,,There are no cattle ranchers that will give up thier cattle operation to run a horse operation for slaughter! I see all the AR post on here and have to wonder how much money have they actualy gave or how much time they have actualy put in to help animals, HSUS talks alot also, they get all these laws passed and then they walk away, they don’t spend money they take in to help the animals they leave that for everyone else.Like most theses equine rescues, they want to save the horses, they just want everyone else to pay for it. Open the equine slaughter plants back up!!!!!

Heres an idea, every abandoned,starveing horse we come across, we will bring them to the AR groups and let you all care for them with your own money no donations but out of your own pocket.You all say there is no need for slaughter, ok then you take care of these animals,those of you reading this that cannot care for your animals anylonger i suggest you give them to these people or take them to Pacelles front yard for him to care for.

LadyAlicorn, I’d like to know the name of your “rescue” as I want to be sure that I NEVER send you a dime or assist you in any way shape or form. If a quick death is all you want for your “friends” then you need to find another answer as slaughter is never a quick death. I will give you credit for not calling it humane at least. If the kill buyers aren’t “buying the horses” anymore, if they’re only taking the cream of the crop and people can’t afford to send their horses to slaughter, then how in the world are all these starving, broken down, abandoned, suffering and tick ridden horses you whine about going to get to slaughter to be “saved”? Magic, perhaps? Maybe you’re genie and you can cross your arms and blink them to slaughter? Why not just blink them never born to begin with. ;) Rendering happens when the animals have been humanely put down and are already quite dead. Slaughter happens when they’re alive. So, it’s REALLY the same? Ya, ok…

Do you slaughter activists hear yourselves? You mustn’t because your arguments make zero sense. If you have witnessed euthanasia gone bad; then might I suggest a different vet and some tranquilizers the next time? Who are all these vets that would send business away? I’ve never had a vet, after 40 yrs in the horse world, owning, training, and working with all breeds of horses; tell me that they would prefer if I didn’t use their services. Not one. I’ve euthanized dozens of animals, I’ve never seen it “go bad”…

I also manage an equine rescue and protection program. I take in and place horses every day and don’t euthanize for space. I live in the Northeast and we simply don’t have the issues people out west are, allegedly, faced with. The market’s depressed, sure, but it’s still functioning quite well, honestly. The prices are a bit lower than they were at one time but I don’t drive down the street and find skeletal horses tied to trees. I can only assume it’s because we don’t have the same level of irresponsible breeding going on up here. Just like dogs and cats, horses are our companions, not food. Why should we seek to kill them just to ensure that we can make more? It’s ridiculous, truly ludicrous!! Pony millers be damned, why not look to where the industry is doing ok as a template for where you should be headed? Let’s see… Oh, I know!!! There’s no blood money with which to line your selfish pockets. Bingo!!!

Jamie DeHart… I don’t even know what to say about your statement. “Poorly bred horses can result in anatomical defects that can dramatically hinder quality of life or even result in a shortened lifespan. Poor conformation is the result of bad genes, stressful living conditions and poor diet. All too often conformation is overlooked in favor of color, and the result can be detrimental to the health of the horse. A horse with conformational defects is very likely to pass those defects along to offspring, limiting the animal’s appeal to future buyers.” Yup. I will say, you’ve nailed down the insidious problem of clueless crazy color breeders who think a uterus and a penis are all that should be required in their efforts to make the next fabulous “cremello tovero with oviano tendancies… Good job. I can also tell you this; many of the horses in rescues today are perfectly normal, young, healthy, REGISTERED, horses that simply got bred into an unforgiving world by selfish people who don’t think. Then had the bad luck of falling into the hands of someone who thinks even less. I’m not entirely sure what a spenditure is, word can’t find it either, but I do know that my expenditures are generally on feed, hoof care and vaccines, that’s all. A little food, water, a refresher course under saddle, a new home, adopted and done. You see, we “save” emaciated horses by feeding them. Good thing, too, since kill buyers don’t even want them. Nice try though…

The problem with the “we can’t afford it” argument that makes it so utterly ridiculous is that EVERY single possible thing that has to do with horses is EXPENSIVE. They aren’t cheap pets. They are luxury items. Nobody has the right to own them, it’s a privilege; an expensive privilege that often goes hand in hand with sacrifice – you know, if you’re a responsible owner. The very same people that “can’t afford” humane euthanasia probably have thousands of dollars worth of equipment lying all around their barns; why not sell it? If you can’t afford a horse, you don’t need it. The reason they don’t: Because it’s not so much that they can’t, it’s more that they don’t want to. After all, if they spend their money on humane euthanasia and disposal, how would they be able to buy that sweet cremello tovero with oviano tendacies? If they sell their tack, how would they be able to ride it into the ground?

The equine industry needs a leg up. A complete overhaul is in order, in fact. It’s not going to happen if we keep doing what’s been done forever, it hasn’t worked yet; it won’t work going forward. It’s insane to keep doing the same thing over and over and expect a different result. Let’s stop the insanity. It’s time.

okiestorm1, this is isn’t about HSUS or the wildfires so try to stay focused. Trying to discrediting orgs or people won’t make Americans embrace horse slaughter. Please answer these questions.

1. Where are you going to get certified vet records, from birth, for every horse that enters the plant? If a horse is abandoned and you can’t find the owner, how are you going to provide vet records for the horse? Or do you plan on falsifying them as they do now?

3. Since the plants only buy the number of horses [115,000 on average] that are needed to fill the demand, not the number of available horses and Wallis is claiming there could be up to 1 million “unwanted” horses, what plan do you have for the remaining 885,000?

I thought I would just share, this. Since, I’m in the sharing mood kind of thing…This is a pm from Trinity Lakes Ranch himself. The part I like, is that he is currently fundraising, for the victim of the fire here in Bastrop, TX. Now remember, he is storing all this hay and grain, in HIS barn, until winter. When he raises money, it’s called fundraising. When we do it, it’s begging… lol And you guys, think we are illogical and irrational.. Trinity Lakes Ranch

So what are you going to do when the fire stops and donations stop flowing and owners are not found. How are you going to care for them in the aftermath of all this. Do you have a plan?? Well we do!!

Buy them with your own money of the money you begged for. When we are done we return to ranching and working in the horse industry

JUST CRACKS ME UP! SEE THE FUNNY SIDE OF ALL OF THIS…. HAHHAHA, he shot himself in his own foot… Begging… now why is it, everybody else, that is fundraising, actually drops it on the ground here? But oh not, Trinity Lake Ranch, and United Horsemen, they are goign to store it and keep it for them, until winter… Did you NOT think that maybe they need it NOW, and if it does needed to be stored for winter, that they could actually handle that.. That way, it’s accessible as they need, it. Not controlled, and doled out by Trinity Lake Ranch themselves… They will decide who gets, it… even though it has been raised for the fire victims… I smell a rat, does anybody else smell one??? YOU guys, really think we are pretty stupid… to fall for that… hahahah Who are the cheats??

Here’s the deal folks. I USE TO BE PRO-SLAUGHTER, because I just accepted what people like Sue Wallis, said for the truth. I finally did my own research. I jumped the fence, fast. I never knew, that people could be so cruel and disgusting. I never knew. I know NOW! There is NO need for this to be done, in the mannerism that it is done in. After, my heart got over the shock of what you do to Equine, I ventured out, and looked at some of the Beef Cow, and Dairy Cow slaughter. OMG, if anything can make the Equine slaughter look mild, it would have to be that… So, that opened up, the topic of Factory Farming.. If I was a rancher, or farmer on today’s market, I sure won’t admit it… I would be to ashamed to admit it. Disgusting, and a poor excuse for human beings. With what I saw. I truly hope, your kind has to answer for your indifference, and your out right, beyond comprehension, abuse. I will always fight your kind, you can use logic and reasoning all you want. It’s just a smoke screen, and a justification to do what you do. I’m appalled, that we have people of your ilk, in this country, and or a part of the humane race. YOU HAVE NO JUSTIFICATION, FOR WHAT YOU DO! YOUR just greedy ^^%$$, period.

I’ve grown tired of this, so you guys enjoy yourselves.

Ms Welty’s letter is a sterling example of the tired rhetoric repeated ad-nauseum by the pro-slaughter contingent.

1.) The availability of slaughter DOES NOT PREVENT OR EVEN REDUCE HORSE NEGLECT.

2.) The anecdotal accounts of horses being “turned loose” or “tied to a post in the country” are usually false or greatly exaggerated in order to create the illusion of *thousands* of animals being abandoned. When you hear these stories, ask for proof and/or documentation and I can guarantee you won’t get it.

3.) The 2007 closures of the US slaughterhouses DID NOT DESTROY THE MARKET — other than being overly dramatic, this statement is often used as the rallying cry from pro-slaughter activists. The closures coincided with a significant downturn in the economy; the number one rule of critical thinking is to understand that correlation does not equal causation. It is the equivalent of stating that since home burglaries and ice cream consumption increase concurrently, eating ice cream therefore causes crime. Of course this is ridiculous, as other factors such as hot weather and people leaving doors and windows open was not considered. Yet this is the same kind of argument the pro-slaughter folks continue to use to justify horse slaughter.

4.) The cost of euthanasia and disposal: Owners of nearly 99% of the horse population manage to take care of this just fine. More often it is the folks who don’t WANT to pay for these services complaining about these costs rather than those who CAN’T. (Note: I find this argument fascinating coming from the folks who are usually politically conservative and bang the drum for “personal responsibility” — evidently animal ownership is exempt from this philosophy?)

5.) A final note to Ms Welty: You are aware that in the US sending your horse to slaughter is still an option, right? Given that, I wonder why the owners of all those horses you are finding abandoned and “tied to posts in the country” didn’t use that option?

Robert, you need to do alittle more research.

Emaciated horse found abandoned in Calif. field; humane officials nurse ‘Momma’s,’ hunt for owner
http://www.nydailynews.com
California humane society ,,yep all made up. RIGHT!

It amazes me that anyone can pretend to somehow know more than professional veterinary associations about what is a humane end for a horse. Oh, but surely the AVMA and AAEP have been paid off somehow by the evil, greedy breeding industry, right, since they say that the captive bolt gun is a humane kill method?

And how on earth could the GAO have come up with such incorrect information in their report about the effect of domestic plants closing? (Surely, they were paid off by the big ol’ greedy meanies too, right?)

And how about the Journal of Animal Science, who did a study that found that the existing rescue network is sadly insufficient to accomodate even the horses that become unwanted within a single year, much less the accumulation of year after year…I am sure they were probably paid off, too.

The writing is on the wall, and it doesn’t really matter how we got to this point– what matters is solving the problem and alleviating so much of the suffering that has resulted in the depressed horse market. The thing is, NONE of the anti-processing people offer any real solutions that will be effective today. The major breed registries have already shown a drastic decrease in horses being raised each year, so let’s stop trying to vilify them, shall we?

The bottom line is, if you don’t want to sell a horse to be processed, that is certainly your prerogative. But when animal science, reason, private property rights, and simple economics dictate the practicality and necessity of horse processing, a lot of you folks need to get off your high horse and accept the fact that processing is acceptable to many, many people. Horses are livestock, and if a horse is a pet to you, that’s also your prerogative.

I would be really very interested to know how many unwanted horses any of the anti-processing folks who have posted in this thread can actually take in, when it comes right down to it. Put your money where your mouths are.

Robert: Thumbs up to you! I have used your same arguments over and over with no luck with the pro-slaughter people. They have tunnel vision and either want to just kill everything or dump them on those of use who don’t believe that slaughter is the answer to everything we don’t want! There cannot be only two solutions: to slaughter or not. There must be more than just one or the other! Those us us who are “anti-slaughter” are coming up with other solutions. We rescue, donate money, help our neighbors who are in crisis, etc., so that these animals have a healthy life and people don’t have to make that decision. I just shake my head when I hear the rants of pro-slaughter people that “we” don’t know anything”, that “our” studies and reports are false, or that “we” should pay for everyone else’s animals. What kind of solutions are those? Those such as Daphne are pretty naive to even suggest that results of a government “study” cannot be “bought”. Have you ever heard of lobbyists? Or PACs? How about the FDA and the pharmaceutical industry. All good examples of buying off so-called reliable studies to suit their needs. It’s always about money and continues to be about money in this case. We are still murdering 100,000 horses each year — that number has not decreased. So, why then, are there reports of a “glut” of horses? If breeding is the same, the numbers should remain the same. Studies have shown that in California alone, the number of abandoned or starving horses has decreased since closure of the kill plants. This is about the economy and lack of taking responsibility for your animals. What about the Premarin mares and foals? These mares are pregnant for only one reason: to sell the urine to the drug company. Many live in deplorable conditions and their babies are sold at auction because they are really not wanted — but needed to produce pregnant mare urine. Do you think this is responsible? And to those breeders who insist that they get a return on their investment, let’s look again at the economy. What makes you think that you deserve a big return when others are struggling. I have invested about $75,000 on my education and used to make about $65 to $85 an hour — now I make about $25 to $35 an hour doing the same work. I’ve been laid off my last two jobs. Where’s my return? Everyone in the U.S. is hurting and everyone must tighten their belts to survive. You mention breeders being responsible and that we should stop targeting them. How do you justify taking a well-bred, expensive race horse from the track to slaughter because he lost a race? Many go directly to slaughter without the chance of being rescued at auction. It happens every day! Offspring (grandchildren) of both Seattle Slew and Secretariat were rescued from slaughter only recently. This is a disgrace! And, it is absolutely not true that the old, weak, sick, starving, etc., are the horses being killed. The kill buyers don’t want those horses — they want healthy, well-conditioned animals that have a lot of meat. And, the meat is toxic! It was banned in pet food back in the 1970s but these kill houses are taking horses from the U.S. and selling meat to markets in Europe! There is no regard for what this meat might do to those people — it’s all about money! So, Daphne and others, continue to do your research and try not to act on emotions alone. No houses near the people? How then are we still killing the same number of horses? And not all people live where there were houses before 2007 so what did they do? We need to work on solutions other than slaughter. Horses are designated as “livestock” purely because of old, outdated zoning laws. For many, they are companion animals or help with farm/ranch work. They are not a meat animal.

Horses are livestock,not pets!!

http://www.animalsangels.org/component/content/article/1-media-center/204-other-featured-stuff-continued.html

Please go to the above link. Europe is “rethinking” the horse meat industry!

livestock=food souce, if not for human use then dog n cat food would be good!

Daphene, if the BLM left the horses on the ranges, there would be no cost. If you are concerned about taxpayers, you must be livid with the hundreds of millions in taxpayer dollars that it costs to subsidize welfare ranchers grazing millions of privately owned livestock on public lands. The cost of the wild horse & burro program pales in comparison. Wild horses generate tourism dollars. Even Slaughterhouse Sue’s state WY is using wild horses in all their ads to generate revenue even though Wallis and Lummis want to remove them all. Do you know anybody that plans vacations around seeing cattle and sheep grazing?

And once again, here we go on the comments thread…once again we see self-righteous arrogant people attacking others who are just standing up for their constitutional right to be able to sell THEIR OWN private property as they see fit-and once again we see them calling anyone with differing opinions names-and calling anyone who feels they have the right to receive monies from the sale of their property “greedy”-calling breeders who have spent their entire lives promoting and advancing the quality of various breeds of horses “irresponsible breeders” merely because these breeders understand and accept the fact that not all foals will be quality foals (no matter WHAT the breeding program is) and consider the slaughter market just one of the potential customers…

Once again, we see false information and outright lies perpetuated by the anti-slaughter people-pathetically infering that THEY have the right to tell us what we can do with OUR horses-even though returning the abilty to humanely process OUR horses will IN NO WAY WHATSOEVER harm them or their horses…

Irregardless of how anyone feels about horses or consuming them for food, we ALL must stop allowing our constitutional rights to be violated by others just because they have differing viewpoints. With over 350 MILLION people in this country, we wont see eye-to -eye on all issues-we all need to accept that and agree to disagree-but it is imperative that we ALL fight to keep our freedoms-even if they differ from our own…Forcing bans and non-essential regulations are strangling this country and tearing this country apart-something that communists have planned since the late 1950s. Time to stop this crap…we need to reclaim our freedoms-one of them being the right to sell OUR property as WE see fit-not allow others to dictate what we can or cant do with OUR horses.

okiestorm1, bute is a carcinogen in humans. Cancer doesn’t develop overnight so it’s not like food poisoning where you eat something and are sick within 24 hours. There are several reports available should you want to educate yourself on the subject.

I’m sure everyone reading this thread would be interested to know what possible reasoning you have for wanting the pet food companies to start using horse meat when they pulled horse meat because it was fatal to several breeds of dogs. Are you going to pay for the law suits against them when they have to deal with their food killing pets, again?

You keep throwing out comments about horse meat not being toxic but you provide no proof or documentation. Here are three links to published veterinary papers that prove otherwise. I can provide more, if you’d like.

http://www.equinewelfarealliance.org/uploads/Ireland_-_bute.pdf
http://tiny.cc/sh932
http://www.equinewelfarealliance.org/uploads/Food_and_Chemical_Toxicology_FINAL.pdf

To the man that said ” horses are not pets they are livestock ” , perhaps in your eyes they are , but where I come from , U.S.A. we dont breed horses for food. We do seem to send ours to other countries however and thats just wrong on all levels. I have done rescue for 14 years now and have NEVER sought donations of any kind and I will tell you why. I never wanted someone to say ” well I gave her 50 bucks , but for all I know it went to her truck pament “. I will tell you this however , I have accepted hay for the horses and thats it. Perhaps if the breeders both backyard and professional would stop breeding horses , ponies , and donkeys than we wouldnt be overun with them the same as we are with out animal shelters.

http://horsebackmagazine.com/hb/archives/11521

More studies on the toxicity of horse meat.

According to the September 1, 2011 paper by the Association of Racing Commissioners International, 99.5 % of biological samples taken from racehorse & tested in 2010 were clean. This article has been reported in both bloodhorse.com & The Horse.com. Horse racing is more aggressively drug tested & regulated than any othe professional sport.

http://www.bloodhorse.com/pdf/DrugsInUSRacing2010_TheFacts.pdf

okiestorm1, this is re: your post above but there is no reply button. Bute is a carcinogen in humans. Cancer doesn’t develop overnight so it’s not like food poisoning where you eat something and are sick within 24 hours. There are several reports available should you want to educate yourself on the subject.

I’m sure everyone reading this thread would be interested to know what possible reasoning you have for wanting the pet food companies to start using horse meat when they pulled horse meat because it was fatal to several breeds of dogs. Are you going to pay for the law suits against them when they have to deal with their food killing pets, again?

You keep throwing out comments about horse meat not being toxic but you provide no proof or documentation. Here are three links to published veterinary papers that prove otherwise. I can provide more, if you’d like.

http://www.equinewelfarealliance.org/uploads/Ireland_-_bute.pdf
http://tiny.cc/sh932
http://www.equinewelfarealliance.org/uploads/Food_and_Chemical_Toxicology_FINAL.pdf

Sorry for the duplicate post. It kept saying awaiting moderation…. Those are the links I mentioned in my previous post.

Cowhorse, yes, everyone should read the threads and they will see where the lies are coming from. You haven’t provided one bit of documentation to back your statements. The three links I provided were not from equine advocates. They are veterinary papers that we uploaded to our website. Medical professionals wrote them, not us. Two are from the EU (the market for our horses) and the other was a peer reviewed published paper in the Chemical and Toxicology Journal that was researched and prepared by a medical doctor from a government university a renowned veterinarian from Tufts University and a veterinarian in France. You will need a little more than your opinions to dispute their research. Don’t forget, the folks that set food safety rules are medical professionals. And it is up to the owners of food animals to follow the strict regulations that they have established to ensure our food supply and the food we supply to other countries is safe for consumption.

You continue to dismiss food safety laws even thought we have provided documentation disputing everything you have posted. We’d be glad to read the opposing scientific opinion but you haven’t provided any. It is a shame that you don’t understand how an animal must be raised to enter the food chain. If medications are banned, they are banned and if our food sources are being given banned substances that certainly can explain all the food recalls and the thousands that have become sick from meat.

The 6 month quarantine was a pass the EU gave the US so we could gradually come into compliance. If you read the EU regulations you would know that all exporting countries must be in full compliance by 2013. That means a full national passport system. We don’t have one and since only the owners of less than 2% of the horse population can’t seem to provide a humane end of life for their horses, do you think you are going to be able to shove a passport system down the throats of all horse owners? And even with the 6 month pass, they can’t follow regulations. We have stacks of falsified paperwork and the if you’d read the reports, you would see the EU has discovered the same thing along with drug residues.

Support slaughter, that is your right but if you want to be taken seriously, you need more than propaganda to overcome the overwhelming documentation that exists that is contrary to your opinions.

So Vicki, there is absolutly no meat in dog food these days we all know that,so what exactualy is it that is still causeing our dogs to get cancer,all kinds of cancer, its not horse meat cause it nolonger exist in dog food,so what is it? could it be all the grains in dog food, dogs need meat not grain, reopen the plants! I’am pro-slaughter and always will be pro-slaughter.you can talk till your blue in the face i know the facts about the drugs all animals are given and the waiting periods,and any thing else you anti-slaughter people come up with. now I got letters to send and petitions to sign. Good night!

http://canadianhorsedefencecoalition.wordpress.com/2011/07/31/the-sad-fall-of-a-racehorse/

Do you think this is just? Follow one race horse’s story. He last raced on 7/11/11 and was murdered on 7/19/11 for his meat!

For one barbra,humans are murdered not animals, this was the owners choice to send this horse to slaughter, it was his or her right to do so!

Actually, Daphne, if you followed the horse industry, you would know that what you said it not at all true. There is no law. What is true is that if the racetrack has a zero tolerance on horse slaughter, the stalls are permanently revoked but only for that track and other tracks owned by the same company/owners. It is a track by track policy and no licenses are revoked.

Why can’t slaughter proponents get the facts straight?

Here’s a unique concept, why not ask owners to be held accountable for horses they chose to buy or breed? And just to clarify, nobody is losing any rights. They sell their horse at auction and after horse slaughter ends, they will retain their “right” to sell their horse. So exactly, how are you losing any rights? That is just another piece of propaganda and emotional rhetoric. Try to scare people into thinking they won’t be able to sell their horse. Every “right” that you have now, you will have after slaughter ends.

You are putting animals haveing the same rights as humans, humans are murderd animals are killed,put down or slaughtered for food. murder is when one human takes another humans life!also putting the slaughtering of an animal any animal in the same catagory as animal abuse is just showing how much you don’t know. slaughtering an animal for food and abuseing an animal for some sickos pleasure like Vick is totaly two diffrent things and you all know it, if you don’t know the dirrerance there is something realy wrong with you upstairs. You people are not makeing any sense at all with your comments, but then again you are not here to tell the truth, you are here to try and make us pro-slaughter people look like we are terrible people, but real animal owners know better.Farmers,ranchers,dairy men and women,livestock owners in general do not abuse our animals, we care for our animals and to put us in the same catagory as people like vick and cock fighters is just showing your true colors!You do not deserve my time any longer!

http://www.facebook.com/note.php?note_id=10150293031658150

Want to know the truth. Go to the link above.

Cowhorse, the old, sick and injured are not the horses going to slaughter. But you just keep saying it. The USDA and Temple Grandin have stated that over 96% of horses going to slaughter are an average age of 7 and are in good shape. The meat mean don’t want old, sick horses. They want young healthy horses.

And once again, slaughter is for food production. It is not the place to send excess and unwanted animals of any species. What don’t you get? It is not a disposal service or a dumping ground. It is for animals that were raised and regulated as food animals.

Yes, let’s be honest. The rescues are not full. Some are and others that can’t take in horses on their property have foster homes and neighbors that help out until there is room at the rescue. The rescues I work with are still taking in horses. We just rescued 30 horses and had them placed in less than 24 hours. Why should the burden of caring for other people’s animals fall solely on rescues? Why do you dismiss owner accountability? There is enough to take in with animals that are seized, which by the way, happened when the domestic plants were open. Slaughter doesn’t stop abuse and neglect. You make it sound like horses are the only animals in need. Do you remember the situation in MT with 1,200 animals? Only 80 of them were horses and every horse was placed. The other animals were livestock, cats, dogs and one llama. And who jumped in to help – the rescues. Until the quarter horse breeder in MT with 700 horses, the largest case of horse neglect occurred when all three plants were operating. How did slaughter prevent that? There was a case in IL with 60 horses when Cavel was still open. Slaughter didn’t prevent that.

And you are correct. The owner has an express right to sell his/her horse and when slaughter ends, they can still sell his/her horse. Nobody is taking the right away to sell horses.

Seriously, if a horse is lame and does not have quality of life then pick up the phone, call the vet and have him humanely euthanized. Nobody is saying to keep the horse alive but if the horse is lame or injured, why on earth would you drag him to an auction and have him linger for days, perhaps at a feed lot, on and off trailers and then to be butchered alive. You make no sense.

Besides the old, sick, or injuried that are being abandoned – yes, they are!, where else do you really think those horses end up?

It ain’t the land of lollipops and unicorns, I promise you. No, If their health and wellbeing is compromised badly enough they may be forced to suffer needlessly as some foundation might be able to make a few bucks off Old Nellie before secretly leading her to a corner behind the barn and shooting her. Or maybe Old Nellie went right to the KB pens? But first you have to admit that there are non-revoverable horses, for whatever reason. Plain and simply, non-recoverable. Those horses must have the best treatment through the end of life possible. That happens with humane processing.

Jan Myers and Barbara – you guys throw out your few catch phrases of “spewing bile” and other comical expressions, meanwhile trying to circumvent the real issues. Do you think you gain support? You’ve not supported any of your comments with any real statistics or information. You like to pretend that smoke and mirrors is the real situation; once again, it isn’t.

You can be amused all you want, but the damage people such as yourselves are doing to the horse industry and REFUSING TO TAKE RESPONSIBILITY OR ACKNOWLEDGE your part in it says an awful lot about your powers of deduction. You two can talk about taking responsibility all you want. You’ve taken cheap and foolish shots at responsible breeders, despite the FACT that all major registries have reported DRASTIC declines in registration and breeding. Breeders are not the problem here. People who keep trying to blame them for being proactive by raising the best quality horses they possibly can, reducing greatly the number of horses they’re raising, and taking good care of the ones they have and are selling are the problem. Instead of actually recognizing the largest and poorest quality number of horses come straight from BLM adoptions, you’re neglecting to be truthful. A very common and typical trait which many in the horse industry have noticed.

So Jan Meyers, you don’t like redundancy. So? If you can’t grasp the entire concept of this issue, perhaps repetition will sink in. If not, you probably are irritated with redundancy because you’re unable to understand the entire scope of damage your people have caused. What is unconcionable though, the fact that the anti-slaughter gang has created a lot of damage to the industry with screaching about the entire option of slaughter. Worse yet, despite a GAO report proving you wrong in your so-called efforts, you want to continue to compound the problems.

Yes, your push is essentially ending the potential sale of a certain set of horses. You’d like people to believe otherwise, but it flat isn’t true. You think horses that are sick, injured, aged, or dangerous will be purchased by anyone? Let me guess, you’d like to have the general public believe those horses are only needing a loving home to fix everything for them. It isn’t real life. Good horses are lost because of injuries and illness, do you really think those horses of lesser quality are going to be snapped up? No. They are not. If there is no market, there is no longer the freedom to sell those horses. That is only common sense once you take the blinders off. You’ll keep trying to use that argument, but it is an empty statement. Your push is removing a market, at least be honest about it instead of parroting the old rote.

Your answer is always, if there’s a problem call the vet (this costs a lot of $$$), have them chemically euthanize them (more $$), either hire a backhoe to dig a hole ($$$) or find somebody to pick up the carcass ($$$). Well of course, just spend a big ole chunk of money because you guys say that is how it is supposed to be. Suppose the owner would have preferred that, but has health problems and all their money is going to the HUMAN? You’re extremely short-sighted and even selfish to expect somebody whose circumstances change to be able to shell out a big chunk of $$$ rather than take care of themselves or their family. Evidently you people don’t see an issue with taking from a human and putting it into a dead end event. Let them take the horse to a market and get what they can for it rather than spending money they may not have any longer.

And for Pete’s sake, just be honest, you guys aren’t arguing animal welfare, you are actually arguing animal RIGHTS! Try to hide it from people in the forum and reading comments, but as the saying about putting lipstick on a pig goes, that is what your basis is all about. They read the common denominator through your posts and it keeps coming back to the same things. We don’t need to resort to calling names, or any other tactic. For anyone seeking the reality of the issue, there are plenty of reports across the nation that support that abandoned and abused cases have risen; those reports have been provided and you haven’t acknowledged them, but plenty of folks ARE seeing them. You can ignore the GAO report – it doesn’t say what you want it to. You can say, you still have a market for a horse with no use ahead of it, but there isn’t. For every one point you guys can make, the reality is several opposing points exist. You just won’t admit it is all and you’re hoping to sway, by hook or crook, anyone who is caught unawares or sidetracked by your emotional content.

Cowhorse: we have supported EVERY comment with statistics. And, BTW, the GAO report has been proven to be inaccurate and they have recounted some of their statements. You are blathering once again with meaningless accusations that you can’t back. You have once again brought up the sick and infirm. We’ve already addressed that issue. Yes, sometimes we have to spend a chunk of money to take care of an old or sick animal and do the right thing. It’s much better than sending it on a journey to hell with no regard for how it’s treated. You and yours have NEVER addressed the issue of abuse and torture at the hands of the kill buyers or facility. NEVER!

It’s our responsibility as an animal guardian to take care of it — not just dump for the highest price. We’ve addressed your comments ad nauseum so I won’t address them again here. We are still, however, waiting for answers to OUR questions. Damage to the “horse industry”? Really? The economy has damaged the horse industry, not the lack of slaughter houses. Slaughters have not decreased — once again repeating this over and over — so how has the “industry” been damaged by closing them? We are still killing 100,000 per year. Yes, horses cannot be sold for what they once brought; however, I don’t make what I used to make either. The economy sucks right now and all of us are suffering from it. I work 7 days/week doing several jobs. Sorry if the big breeder can’t sell his horse for what it was worth several years ago. That’s the market. No, you don’t need to resort to name calling but the fact is that you DO IT. Read several posts above and you’ll find it. As for the line about “animal rights”, well…they DO have rights. Sorry to tell you but they have the right to be treated humanely. They have the right to adequate food and water. They have the right to not be abused or tortured. Sorry to tell you but it’s true. I don’t hide the fact that I believe this. Just by saying this, you admit that you believe this to be wrong.

The bottom line through all of this is what we’ve tried to relay all along: Horses are not raised for food. Slaughter is a process for food animals. Horse meat cannot be sold for food in the U.S. Horse meat is toxic. Europe is beginning to “get it” that they are getting toxic horse meat from U.S. horses sold to them from Canada and Mexico. They are starting to pull out of the market. Who will you blame then when that well of money dries up?

Robert M: Your statements are, as have been consistent throughout the discussion, out in left field without a lick of sense. Your implication that people should have less value placed on them than the horses is very telling. That is straight out of the Animal Rights playbook. Anyone who doubts it can just go out to read quotes from Wayne Pacelle, H$U$ CEO. Along with several other Animal Rights activists. Your extremist views have been exposed for the fallacy they are for anyone to check up on.

And typically, of course the answer to the GAO report as being flawed (gee Barbara, like this one wasn’t obviously going to come from you), the reason you would like other people to believe that report is flawed is because it doesn’t support your twisted VERSION of reality. It is one thing to lie to yourself, but to attempt to manipulate other people into following your poorly thought out logic is actually pretty comical in and of itself.

The only reason that folks such as Robert M, Barbara, and Jan Meyers repeat that nobody answers their questions is because when they are presented with facts, reports, statistics, and real life events, they’re continuing to ignore them in the hopes they will either go away or those who can think for themselves won’t see/hear/read them. It is one thing to be passionate and sensible; it is another to be destructive. Well folks, since you haven’t been able to actually counter a single fact with anything but name calling, silliness, and worse, you’ve merely proven the point. You don’t have facts on your side.

But consider a very strong point – IF you had been correct in that getting all plants in the U.S. closed had been beneficial to the horse industry, the market wouldn’t have been depressed far longer than the economy. Your irresponsible actions are one of the biggest, anti-horse actions to negatively impact the entire horse market. Now that your so-called “idea” has been at work, the horses are now abandoned and abused at great numbers (yes – those reports exist in EVERY STATE, whether you deny them or not) and you’ve not improved the plight of horses overall in the least. Hey, everyone makes mistakes, why aren’t you folks big enough to admit that you were wrong and start working to improve the industry as a whole.

As for *gasp* somebody actually selling a horse and making money, so what? In case you’ve not heard of it before, that is called free enterprise. Look at every market out there, people are not in business to create a product and give it away. To even bring that up, well, I’d suggest you be sheepish about the lack of foresight to that comment, but …….

Cowhorse….my name is spelled Jan Myers! We. Have done nothing that actually changed a thing for you horse slaughtering fools! How many times do we have to repeat that the only thing that gas changed is the location of the deed! You still have the right to send your horse to be butchered as you had here in the states a few shirt years ago! It is you that has ZERO facts to back up your claims! Not us…I am in touch with many horse advocates in Canada and guess what? They all say that abuse, neglect and starvation are alive and well even with several of the lovely slaughter plants just around the corner! We will always have the morally challenged people among us! You should know a lot about that! The outright banning of slaughter is the only way to show you that you are wrong and that we can all rise to a higher horse! And be much better off for it in the long run! Please please take off your $$$ blinders and you will finally be able to see The Truth!

And what part of closing the slaughter houses KILLED the horse market. YOu could sell any horse for over 500 before the houses were closed, with in a few months the horse market dropped slightly within a yr there was no bottom dollar and the horse market went down the drain…
I watched a sale on RFDTV the other day, I seen TOP NOTCH horses going for less then 500. ALL older and trained. ONE set went thru a mare and foal, went for 1000 for both.
NO matter what you ANTI’S say, slaughter SET the market for horses. I can bet you that IF the houses are allowed to open back up the horse market WILL go back up and ppl who can’t afford to feed their horses will be able to sell that horse and get enough money to feed their families.
and yes mexico is still open and the reason why you do not see numbers increasing and you see more horses left in fields, etc, is because we do NOT want to see the horses stabed over and over, at least here in the states they get shot or captive bolt rendering them DEAD, before they are bled out. That is one reason why we see horses being turned out to fend theirselves.

In addition to making horsemen/women responsible for the privilege of ownership (of which I am among them), there are other means by which to address the problem of unwanted horses. The first is staggeringly simple: Don’t make so many of them! (Yea, I know, I’m preaching to the choir on this one!)

The theory that reducing horse slaughter increases abuse and neglect is clearly not supported by the data. On its face, the data would seem to make the case that slaughter has just the opposite effect on the number of cases of abuse and neglect. There may be some truth to this because the brokers and feedlot operators who deal in slaughter horses are not known for their stewardship of the animals (to be polite). The fact is, however, that all attempts to calculate a relationship between abuse and neglect generate widely disparate values year to year which indicate that there is probably no meaningful relationship at all, or that if it exists it is insignificant compared to other factors.

The reason this is true is undoubtedly multi-fold. The number of horses being slaughtered annually represents only 1% of the horse population, so their fate has little effect on the overall situation. Neglect is probably more dependent upon larger factors such as weather (forage and hay availability), and the state of the economy.

Additionally, since the slaughter industry processes only horses that are in good flesh, and generally under twelve years of age and since blind horses and horses that cannot support their weight on all four legs are banned from transport, it would seem that the horses being removed from the population through slaughter are not the ones being abused and probably not the ones at highest risk of abuse or neglect.

Finally, a market place is not an “open loop” system by nature. That is, the supply of a commodity does not remain unrelated to its demand. If there is a demand for horses of a certain type (e.g. “loose horses”), then the market will provide them. For a commodity whose supply is fundamentally unlimited, supply would be expected to follow demand and not the other way around as the “unwanted horse” theory proposes.

In short, the theory that horse slaughter has a beneficial effect on the rate of abuse and neglect is clearly disproved by the facts. For reputable institutions to continue to depend on this theory as a justification for supporting horse slaughter is at best unjustified and irresponsible.

Here are excerpts from the current International Equine Conference:

“Horses are often shipped to Japan for slaughter overseas. Three (or more) horses are packed tightly into wooden crates, bound by wire, to be shipped in cargo transport. No food or water is provided on these long trips & horses are often injured. There is no way for them to escape in these tightly packed crates.”

“One of the methods of killing horses in these slaughter plants is with the use of a .22 rifle, which has been shown to be ineffective & inaccurate. Horses are shot, but quickly regain consciousness, thrash around & injure themselves more as they try to stand, often enduring several minutes of pain & suffering before being re-shot (some requiring three or more shots) before death finally comes.”

“Feedlots of horses going to slaughter have also been investigated. Documentation has show there there is a lack of fulltime staff monitoring the horses. There is a consistent lack of food & water for the horses. Piles of dead horses are often found on these lots. Horses are packed into tight spaces. Foals are born, often prematurely, & many freeze to death in cold weather conditions. Many mares miscarry their foals in these conditions.”

“Horse Slaughter has never had a beneficial effect on Abuse, Abandonment, or Neglect. Horse Slaughter has never been anything but a brutal process. Equine neglect is influenced almost entirely by economic conditions. Slaughtering 100,000 horse a year has NOT offset the negative impact of the great recession.”

You say

“One of the methods of killing horses in these slaughter plants is with the use of a .22 rifle, which has been shown to be ineffective”

Last night in the LSCB meeting a 22 rifle is the method to put down a animal That comes from Ohio State Vets reconmendation SO Barb What School are you from

Horses are livestock there needs to be a place to Process For Food so they don’t go to waste

There is no need to even try to talk to the AR’s they have a lack of Protein that doesn’t allow them to think clear

Hey Horsecow….

“You guys (Butch, Okiestorm1)are right, a few posters on here are specifically animal RIGHTS, and NOT animal welfare. Despite factual reports regarding breed registries numbers drastically being reduced; the GAO report that confirms everything that has been stated about the uptick in horses being abandoned; and states having their own reporting system where they track estrays and abandonment which coincides with the increases elsewhere, the animal rights movement (see specifically Jan Meyers, Barbara, Robert M) refuses to either read the reports or even, in some cases, acknowledge their existence.”

1. If you want to label me a Animal Rights person..I don’t give a rip…label me all you want. I am not going to lose any sleep over it. All people have to do is read my words to know that is a freakin lie.
2. The GAO downplayed the biggest single factor in the increase of abandonment and neglect which is the ECONOMY….Good God are you blind? Slaughter is still in place…every single one of the people that starved, neglect or abandoned their (horse—aka their responsibility) had that option available to them…They could have called a KILL BUERS to pick up their (responsibility) before it got to that point….
3. I have read the entire GAO report…the only thing in it that is a worth a crap is the past that says we need to get off the pot and do something one way or the other…The other way of dealing with the issue is to completely BAN the the practice.
4. I have researched, studied this issue countless hours, read reports, gone to auctions for years. I know what I get from my horse (an incredible relationship) and I know what I would never want for him and that is the cruel death of slaughter. You know what is funny…you guys are always twisting our (Animal Welfare Advocates) words around because your arguments hold absolutely no water..in fact they have huge holes in them so they could never hold water…The slaughter advocates and the slaughter industry have effectively taken MY RIGHT AWAY to sell, give or transfer my horse to anyone if I should ever need to. By having the possibility that he may end up butchered for someone rich persons food in another country. I am forced to never relinquish him……So his only option upon my death or other catastrophic live event is to be HUMANELY EUTHANIZED. Not fair to him or to me…

“I personally find it incredibly sad these folks are hiding behind a curtain they have personally tried to make sound as though they are for improving the quality of life for all horses. It isn’t true, but they won’t acknowledge it. A perfect example is the unintended consquences of forcing equine processing plants out of business in the U.S. Since that has happened, horses’ lives have NOT been improved. Considering the rabid attacks and downright lies from the animal rights wing, I have to consider, perhaps the increase in abandonment wasn’t as unintended as I originally thought. I didn’t think that truly people would ban together in a long-term vision to actually eliminate horse ownership from all but the very wealthy.”

1. I am not hiding behind a dang thing. I am out front with my wishes and they are to see the horse industry thrive and improve, through better treatment of horses. Once again since you seem oblivious to the fact, horses have always taken the brunt of economic down turns. AND this is the worst economic downturn since the great depression. We will always have coldhearted people in the world that care more about themselves/pocket book than about what is morally right for creatures in their care. Bring domestic slaughter back WILL NOT change that fact…..
2. Unintended consequences were intended? Really, you believe that? Now that is funny ! !
3. Long-term goal to make horse ownership only available to the very rich….yeah that has to be right because I am so rich now and have one……that is a bankrupt scare tactic and I find it incredible that people are actually STUPID enough to believe it.

“Yet, we see these personal freedoms under attack from many quarters. Right out of the H$U$ playbook, their CEO Wayne Pacelle has been quoted many times about his personal opinion that he believes extinction of certain species, animal ownership, and even animal agriculture shouldn’t exist. Shouldn’t exist. When reading those two words, it changes the behavioral motivation of the animal rights wing. It then puts the question out there; are Barbara, Jan Meyers, and Robert M simply so deluded by people higher up the food chain of their movement that they can’t see what is right before their eyes? Or, are they actually aware of the damage they are doing and still pushing to destroy the industry even further? When reading their same tired responses about bad breeders who’ve made this whole situation exist, it is obvious that they are trying to make statistics go away. Since statistics are nothing more than impersonal numbers, they must try to minimize or ignore completely their existence. If they do not, their litany is shown to be a lie”.

– You are right about our personal freedoms being under attack from many quarters..ie The patriot Act, ban on smoking in public places, breed specific laws, the collation of personal information in data bases, hundred if not thousands of other examples, but you get my point…I think, don’t you? Personal freedom does have it’s limits and should for the greater good of the majority. Wayne Pacelle has a right to his own opinion. It is only one opinion and he is not the HSUS entirely….You really think ONE MAN can change Americas love for owning animals….I think not and surely you are not that stupid. At least I would hope so.

“Anyone wishing to truly understand the actual scope of the damage the animal rights wing has to date been allowed to do can easily see through their smoke screen. It is nothing concrete in the least. For people who support personal property rights; support animal agriculture; see the foolishness of a wasteful society; “
– Anyone that truly wishes to understand what the Slaughtering of Horses is all about, who supports it (Farm Bureau, breeders, Breed Registries, Sue Wallis/United Horsemen and anyone else that stands to make a buck) and why (greed and the desire to have a dumping ground (easy button) for horses so they can continue to breed in a flat market. Sue Wallis has delusions of grandeur and wealth which she tries to cover up the ugliness of by using words like “humane processing”. She wants to set up a feedlot for all the “starving horses” that need homes out there. She would fool a lot of people into giving their beloved horses to her unknowing that there are going to be slaughtered. Sue’s dream of of opening a plant here in the US that is humane is laughable at best. In order to make it really humane it would not be financially feasible (Just ask Temple Grandin what she states has to be done to even remotely make it humane. The good ole boy system is a live and well in today’s world. You have Senators and Representavies that stall the Anti-slaughter bills in committee because the the large lobbying groups donate heavily to their campaigns and dare I say it?, If the SOP of politicking is in the mix there is probably a good amount of bribe money changing hands as well. So there you have it. We are fighting for our horses so they do not have to go through a horrific process just because someone deems them expendable. The Pro’s are fighting to perpetuate cruelty under the guise of helping them….What a joke ! ! ! Plus Sue and her cohorts NEVER address the fact that the FDA has banned all the drugs in food animals that are used in today’s companion horses, race horses and sport horses… I think that fact alone should be enough to pull the slaughter option off the table for good.

“and want to understand equine welfare, that money generally lies at the root of their arguments their stance becomes very easy to see through.”

-OMG you didn’t just say that money lies at the root of our arguments….Now that is really funny…We spend our money helping the healthy, sane and sound animals that you and the pro side try to send to be butchered….you know 92% of the horses that are sent to slaughter..Sadly we cannot help them all because the pros insist it is their “RIGHT” to over produce even though there is NO acceptable market for them. Not very good business men and women are they? We make no money off our advocacy and care of these animals, we lose it. Surely you were looking in the mirror when you made that statement.

“For anyone who truly wants to read open and honest dialogue on the subject, the United Horseman’s group is filled with equine industry professionals. Yes – the very people who’s livelihood depends on the welfare of horses are in that group and working towards restoring a thriving equine industry. You’ll read much from the animal rights wing that people who would actually expect to earn back even a portion of their investment are evil. “

1. The United Horsemen’s group is a 501c3 charity (how that can be astounds me) that pilfers the bank accounts of honest farmers and ranchers that give to this monstrosity in the sad hope they are right and the market will return if slaughter is brought back. Unconscionable that they hold out a false carrot to these good people but they do. They also have the big AG business people behind them who’s only goal is to increase profits.

2. We don’t malign anyone who would like to make back a portion of their investment if it is not done through pain, cruelty and torture…If you all would help us revamp the industry and take it to higher standards it would be an industry without shame. An industry where people can hold their heads up high and feel good about themselves and what they have created. The way it is now they look selfish and short sighted at best. One has to wonder why many of the pro’s state that they would not send their horse to slaughter because they love them. If it is so humane why wouldn’t they? The fact is that it is not humane..What hypocrites ! ! And Hypocrites in the worst way ! !

“They are about money, not horses. Lest they forget, and obviously they have, horses as does anything take money. It takes money to feed and care for them. You’ll see some of the most atrocious pictures of animal abuse right on the pages of various Animal RIGHTS individuals. They use a horrific photo of horses with life-threatening and painful afflictions, will ask for money to help with care and/or surgery. When in truth, the kindest thing for many of these horses would be to euthanize them.”
-Again what money….You forget that it takes money to save horses from the meat man. It takes money to feed, house and treat them medically. Most of the horses saved are healthy horses (remember 92% of slaughter bound horses are healthy, sound and sane). Granted there are a few that would be better off humanely euthanized, NOT butchered. And many of them are if they are truly without hope. But if people are willingly donating to those horses in need that is their right. And no business of yours.

“Let them go. Stop holding them up to solicit a soft hearted and well intentioned person’s money. If the animal rights wing were actually and honestly about horse welfare, they would be euthanizing the horses who are non-recoverable and suffering.”

-They do humanely euthanize those without hope…However they do not butcher them as you would do.

“They would instead be putting that time into a horse that could be recovered and rehomed. But they are not.”

– LIAR..We do just that and have re-homed many thousands of good horses. That the pro’s would have slaughtered to feed the rich people in FOREIGN countries. The childish side of me really wants to break out in the song Liar, Liar: Pants on Fire ! ! LOL

“And isn’t that actually what this argument is theoretically based on? That those horses are given homes where they are cared for, are no longer suffering? If that were honestly the case, the photos of the horses they use as their poster child would not be there. Talk about abuse. Talk about money being their impetus. Let’s just get real, the animal RIGHTS people are not and never were about bettering the animals’ condition and they still aren’t.”

-All I can say to this BS is that it is BS…You need to research things a little more because you are clueless about the GOOD that rescues do….Far more GOOD than BAD. Which is something no one can say about your side ! ! !
I will end this rebuttal with a comment I made in response to Trinity Lakes Ranch on The APHA page last night…

TLR…$$$ can be very effective blinders to compassion ! ! ! I personally have not sold out nor would I ever. I watch and read all of the pro-slaughter rhetoric and the one thing that keeps sticking in my craw is “don’t push your values on us, you have no right”….In my opinion vlaues are sorely needed because the pro-slaughter agenda is severely lacking in compassion, kindness and respect for their golden geese. BTW I will mention that values are pushed on everyone, everyday of our lives. What makes the horse industry immune to being held accountable? What is wrong with improving the industry by promoting higher standards? Why do you fight so to keep an antiquated system that is so obviously inhumane? Why not rise to the challenge and try to repair the industry in positive ways instead of taking the cheap and easy way out by killing what you and others deem invaluable? I will never understand the tunnel vision of the pro-slaughter stance. The only reasonable theory I can come up is that tunnel you are looking down is lined with $$$ and that is blinding you to the reality of what you are doing and perpetuating.

Many people consider horse slaughter a perilous predatory industry, after they do the research to find out the truth.From the standpoint of “welfare” for horses,it is clear that slaughter has and never represents any welfare to the animals,but the agenda behind it, initiated by profit-driven individuals.
Considering the economy,overload status of rescues,cost of horse ownership are all good incentives,but not to promote slaughter. There are alternatives,solutions other than bringing back the very inhumane practices of horse slaughter. I find it important to educate on the truth. Responsibility is one aspect that must be weighed in.Address over breeding.Consider all the industries and jobs that benefit from horses and horse ownership such as feed stores, riding clubs, boarding facilities, trainers etc.
I started to do research on this topic and what I found was shocking. The main stream is cleverly pacified into believing slaughter is necessary to help the “poor starving or abandoned horses”… used as a propaganda gig without disclosing the truth on this When one finds out,it is obvious that no one in his right mind for the welfare of the horses, could endorse this.
The public health hazard of adulterated meat is another aspect that is of great concern,for all consumers.Horses are not raised for human consumption,even banned from being processed into dog food. It takes efforts to create a different approach than to foster the dumping grounds and promote the continued irresponsible breeding,yet it is the only feasible solution.
America must do better than bringing back slaughter.

Monica Courtney; first, any good reason why you’d even bother stating humane processing creates a “dumping ground” and “irresponsible over breeding?” Since that is patently untrue, are you simply not doing research, not looking at breeding statistics? Or, worse, are you actually aware that breeding has dropped dramatically, but you are helping to push a dishonest agenda forward?

Anyone who is even remotely interested, they don’t need to even be very good at research, can find out that the major breed associations have reported significant drops in breeding reports and foal registrations. Since that is indisputable, why continue to state something that is so outright wrong?

When a person states information that is directly a lie to the actual happenings, it places all information as a “suspect” category. In other words, if people intentionally lie about a part of their response, they’ve lied about other parts. If you, Monica, have been lied to, take a little time to research your numbers. You can look at the three major stock horse breeds which are the American Quarter Horse Assoc (AQHA), American Paint Horse Assoc (APHA), and the Appaloosa Horse Club (ApHC). Their reports will prove breeding numbers have dropped. It is my hope that people will look into those statistics for themselves and realise the “evil breeder” litany is a farce.

Monica, you’ve been duped by the animal rights agenda.

Ironic. “Cowhorse” pronouncing anyone else ‘duped’ —

If it weren’t for the reasonably good spelling and grammar, I would think that “Cowhorse” is the Duchess of ‘Dupedom’ herself, Sue Wallis.

The protests appear to be directly from her playbook of ‘How To Deflect the Truth About Horse Slaughter”

Slaughter is NOT humane euthanasia for the horse. “The captive bolt is not a proper instrument for the slaughter of equids, these animals regain consciousness 30 seconds after being struck, they are fully aware they are being vivisected.”

~ Dr. Lester Friedlander, DVM & former Chief USDA Inspector ~

Daphne: It’s amazing that you can’t come up with anything new to say. You’ve been parroting the same phrases over and over for weeks and we’ve shot all of them down. When will you learn? It’s getting very old and tiresome reading your rantings about rights, eating horse meat, etc., that you keep repeating — and, oh yes, “humane” slaughter. There is nothing humane about what’s going on and how anyone can want it to continue is beyond me. I won’t address your other rantings here because all you need to do is scroll up a few pages and you will find the answers to everything you’ve mentioned from me and everyone else.

Well said Robert M. Any forum the pro-slaughter side takes on, ends up exposing their unsubstantiated views, painting a picture that does not reflect the reality, period. Kill buyers are some of the most notoriously known animal abusers. Dismissing those who expose the violations and cruelty on the auction blocks as animal rights terrorists just shows again the weak retreat tactics of finger pointing and evasive name-calling. There is plenty of video footage and evidence on the contrary of this “pretty” picture that some paint here trying to make believe that horse slaughter is a necessary evil.
The demoralizing effects on those who worked in such hellholes have been another proven factor of the allover ill picture. Health hazards of tainted meat is a fact. How will they dismiss this one ? The credibility of pro-slaughter is hampered with lies and deception, no one on our side has been duped, we work to expose the truth backed up with facts, investigations and real circumstances. For the pro-slaughter’s motto: Why tell the truth, when a lie will do… I have to agree.
Some slaughter advocates are acting as though the American Horse Slaughter Prevention Act is now law and that we suddenly have a problem due to a lack of a US-based horse slaughter industry.
But they fail to take into consideration that US horses still go to slaughter. Your friendly neighborhood kill buyers are still doing business at the auctions and 134,059 US horses went to slaughter in Mexico and Canada two years ago.
Those numbers really aren’t that different from the number of horses slaughtered per year in recent years.
The American Quarter Horse Association (AQHA) talks about “unwanted horses”; but it makes its intentions to increase breeding to prevent a “horse shortage” very clear. At the 2008 AQHA Convention, Bill Brewer stated:
“Now our challenge becomes looking at ways to introduce an ‘equine economic stimulus package’ that will boost registration numbers so we don’t have a horse shortage in a few years.”
There is a certain amount of hypocrisy on the part of the AQHA when they speak about needing slaughter to prevent horse abuse then stating they intend to put more horses on the ground.
According to the article “Leading Indicators” in the January issue of Equus Magazine (part 1 part 2) the AQHA has boosted their registration numbers: 140,000 Quarter Horses were registered in 2008, which is up from 135,787 in 2007. It seems to me that if there is a horse overpopulation, the AQHA is contributing to it.
Another interesting fact relating to the AQHA is the bill in North Dakota calling for a “study” on horse slaughter. The man who introduced this bill, Representative Rod Froelich, is a quarter horse breeder.
You can read more about the AQHA’s breeding practices here. It appears that selling to the slaughter market is a profitable side business for Quarter Horse breeders, which might explain why some are fighting so hard to keep the horse slaughter industry alive.
The AQHA and American Veterinary Medical Association (AVMA) claim that horse rescues are at full capacity and can take no more horses, yet in a recent article appearing in AZ Central there is a rescue mentioned that is at about 50% capacity. I’d be willing to bet that there are others.
The AQHA and AVMA argue that slaughter is needed in the US again because it can be “regulated” to ensure that the process is “humane.” But information from the US Department of Agriculture under the Freedom of Information Act shows otherwise in this press release (warning, the images are graphic) and in this article. http://www.kaufmanzoning.net/nov24/pressrelease.pdf

A question I’d like to ask the AVMA is how they can consider horses being transported to slaughter with broken legs and eyes gouged out (this is done to “unruly” horses apparently) to be “humane and well regulated”.
The AQHA and AVMA have been saying that slaughter is necessary for horse welfare for many years now. Polls have shown that most Americans don’t approve of horse slaughter and would prefer to find another solution to the so-called problem. The reality is that the pro-slaughter side is quick to point out a problem, but only offer slaughter as a solution.
Those opposed to slaughter tend to offer real solutions – a case in point is Madeline Pickens offering land to allow the wild horses that our government has in its holding facilities a place to roam free. Why is it that our side seems to be all about solutions? One would think that with the money and resources the pro-slaughter side has that they could also step up to the plate with an alternative to slaughter, but they fail to do so. No new ideas have come from the AQHA or the AVMA. For solutions that truly are for the horses not the “industry”… contact me on facebook.

http://rtfitch.wordpress.com/2011/09/30/desperate-wyoming-horse-eater-shows-her-burro-in-illogical-and-inhumane-rant/

It’s amazing to me that someone can be so illogical as to think that slaughter is an “out” for horses! Maybe it’s also an “out” for ignorance and stupidity.

In May of this year, a big expose campaign on Baker has shocked
the nation. The reality of horse slaughter and the violations of kill buyers are evident here. Last May, I wrote to the state of Ohio and amongst many other Americans expressed my outrage:

While I appreciate the reply I received – thank you Commissioners to take the time to respond – it is once again revolting how a system supposedly put in place in different branches to deal with different issues, to govern different areas and to address different problems and violations has to once again DIG up the one who HAS authority over this mess.
Sugarcreek is notoriously known across America as a primal chaos of abominable suffering – yet Baker happily continues to shock the nation with his profiteering, callous conduct and unacceptable outfit.

Ohio will become a spot on the map which equine folks will identify as representing archaic and ignorant values towards decent humane animal welfare standards. Is it a wonder ? Some of the worst puppy mills are in this state.
Please take action and contact the “new” contact. The lapse finger pointing continues. One can wonder, if the prosecutor’s office would show more interest, if it was a private person, not a “corporation”…. livestock operation…. surely those poor horses would benefit, if prosecutors were to remember their duties in a combined effort against such outrageous cruelty. If the Dept. of Agriculture in Ohio fails to address the urgency of their licensing and revoking policies such as with Sugarcreek Auction with better oversight, inspections and regular assessments, then a higher instance ought to get involved. Clearly, there exists a grave lack of concern by either the Dept. of Agriculture, or the legal jurisdiction in this area.
This is unacceptable by all means. Amendment of existing ineffective codes and implementation of stricter enforcement to ensure the prevention of such profound violations must no longer delay, whilst horses suffer unspeakable pain and neglect at the hands of Leroy Baker.
They must hear from us. Demand change. Then feel free to contact Ohio media to expose this – as they are the tool for public pressure. Share Sugarcreek on your facebook page. Contact the press and send notes to the tourist offices to let them know your disgust with Ohio’s stone age mentality.
————-
On Scenic Route 39 in Ohio, amongst enticing sounding villages, there is a veiled, abominable place where they sells horses.
Yet, the horrors one discovers, reeking of neglect, cruelty and death, is one experience so haunting, the name Sugarcreek echoes the resemblance of abysmal wickedness. Far from a romantic Amish impression… the images out of Sugarcreek Livestock Auction have sent disturbing shock waves across America.

Below please find my letters on Sugarcreek. This alert was sent out nationwide yesterday. I ask that you step up the plate and stop this man from operating this hellish lot. The time is now. The bureaucratic evasiveness must stop, and new priorities be set. It is truly despicable such suffering is taking place within your jurisdiction. Americans across the nation are calling on you to stop Sugarcreek and revoke his license.
Enough evidence of his violations and horrid treatment of horses has been documented and is available to you. Make Sugarcreek a place that lives up to its name and do your job to hold Sugarcreek accountable on animal cruelty, neglect and abuse charges.

Thank you for your time.
Monika Courtney, Colorado
———————————————————————-
Subj: Update – Ohio “matter”

Please see my letter to prosecutor below, Response on Sugarcreek. Scroll down.
Thanks.
I hope this man gets shut down. He owes over $ 160’000 in fines… and still is not revoked his license for his hellish auction block. Additional contacts to send your thoughts are in this link :
http://tuesdayshorse.wordpress.com/2011/03/15/take-action-for-sugarcreek-auction-horses-with-animals-angels/

In this link you will see a photo of the “daily routine” at Sugarcreek….. horses dying from pure ignorance.
Monika Courtney
—————————–
http://www.ohioattorneygeneral.gov/Contact
Sept. 30, 2011
To whom it may concern: Recent communication from Jeremiah Johnson, see below, indicated of the ongoing investigation on the Sugarcreek Horse Auction. I and many others would like to know as how he can continue his operation despite of severe violations, did he pay his fines, if not, how your state allows the continuation of his auction business, and what the outcome other than assessing a fine on his violations is: a) Are there new implementations with respect to animal welfare, b) what is the assurance and oversight necessary to ensure no animals suffer as in the past, c) and what is the latest status on this case which shocked the nation in May of 2011 ?

See email from Jeremiah Johnson below.

Sincerely,

Monika Courtney
———————————————–
Subj: Re: Response email “Your Policy” Sugarcreek

The county commissioner, myself and our local senator have been in consistent contact with the investigators and they will be at the sale tomorrow to investigate so we are working on the issue.

barbara thats right I leave the emotion CHECKED at the door, because EMOTIONS SHOULD NOT and i repeat SHOULD NOT have a say in what you do. NOW i do NOT like horses that are abused or neglected, and Yes I have called the HS on a few horse owners, I am an ohio reins volunteer and take what i have very seriously, I do help those horses that have been abused, BUT when it comes to that owner wanting to send THEIR horses to slaughter, so be it, or that owner that wants to sell THEIR horses so be it. I do NOT cry because i see a horse being slaughtered, I DO NOT cry because I see a horse at a sale barn. THEY ARE not my horses. IT IS NOT for you or ANYONE to CRY because someone sent their horses to slaughter, ITS THEIR right as a horse owner TO SEND that horse there. THEIR RIGHT.
IF you all would STOP letting emotions run how you think, then maybe you would see what we do. that slaughter is NEEDED, YOU CAN”T save all the pretty ponies. YOu all live in a fairy tale land where the horses fart rainbows and talk.
THEY are NOT your horses, and YOU SHOULD NOT, NO ONE SHOULD tell a horse owner what they can or can’t do with their horse, (unless they are abusing or neglecting them) and sending them to slaughter or a sale barn is NOT abuseing them or neglecting them.
SHoot I wonder what you think about iceland? YOu do know that they have 2 herds. one reg. herd for riding and one herd TO EAT. Or didn’t you know that. HORSES are one of the main staples in iceland. OH GOSH wait you would CRY and have tears because they kill and eat their horses. MIND you that they have TWO different herds. ONE strickly for eating and one strickly for raising horses to RIDE and show.

NO ONE has the right to abuse animals and torture them to death. In Colonial times, it was legal in this country to KILL a disobedient child. Well, children and animals are no longer chattel. It’s time for the pro-slaughter people to EVOLVE.

STOP BREEDING, you mental midgets. That is where the “excess” horses come from. Then, start CARING for your horses properly and they will not be injured and broken down. Anyone who knows Daphne from Fb knows it is a waste of time trying to reason with her. Only 1% of our horses go to slaughter every year. It is not the answer to the overpopulation problem. Limiting BREEDING is. I saw my fist “slaughter” auction in 1963. I thought Americans would have evolved by now but I guess we are still Neanderthals.

@Daphne here we are again. I didn’t take the time to read ALL of your rants, because I have read them all before. I would however, like to comment on just this last post of yours.

If you remember, I to asked how old you where, during one of our debates, because I to wondered how old you were, due to your comments. You do come across as immature and somewhat naive, at best.

You claim, that you are not emotional.. Are you kidding me?? Your rants are full of emotions, just not in the normal healthy place. You sound like you’re mad at the world. Because they are standing up against, what you Aggi people call, your rights?? Women use to be chattel, and abused, neglected and used up as well. That was your husbands right to do that, after all you are his property. (I will note here not ALL men are that way).

I have always found it funny, that those that would “Steal” become irate when someone steals from them… Those that would tell lies, would also become irate, when someone lies to them. Likewise, those that would disrespect and abuse another beings rights, become irate, when they think their rights, have been disrespected and violated. I find that a littler amusing, and entertaining at best. Daphne, I have always found you to be amusing and entertaining at best.

Daphne Watson, thinks that the BLM hung the moon, so do I need to say more.. I have a question for you Daphne. BLM, is know to invade, and take property from American Citizens without proper authority. If you happen to be a victim of this agency, what would you do?? Would you want someone to help you??? NOW, that IS an example of YOUR rights being invaded, and disrespected…

@Daphne, before you even go there and say, that the BLM doesn’t do this or that, check this link out… http://forum.treasurenet.com/index.php?topic=391909.0

Also, would like to share this other BLM report. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v_g-LZSQuPA&feature=youtu.be

Goodness, the typical posters against everything accept what they deem appropriate are sure out in force today. The ironic thing, you still haven’t actually provided real answers to real-life dilemas. You are all to easily side tracked into name calling, stating statistics that disprove your claims don’t exist even when they’re provided to you, and attempting to create a blog where the message gets lost in juvenile antics.

Brenda Lee tries to discredit people as being immature and naive as she attempts to play at pop psychology. Brenda Lee, your distraction with making personal attacks doesn’t gain either support or credibility. Try to stay on track.

Catherine Ritlaw, “STOP BREEDING you mental midgets.” Now this one was very funny. Gee Catherine, you refer to OTHERS as mental midgets, yet you’ve been unable to grasp the reduction of breeding by responsible breeders. If you had read the statistics, understood what they meant, and realise that BLM horses are the truly exploding population as opposed to the professional breeding programs you would certainly have never made that comment. Luckily, responsible breeders understand that if they were to completely “stop” breeding, many of the performance bloodlines would be lost. That is exactly the type of statement that HSUS CEO, Wayne Pacelle, has made. So Catherine, why not be honest with everyone – if you believe in “stopping” altogether, then you aren’t for welfare of animals, you are actually for the extinction. Here I must insert a bit of humor though, Catherine, your statement could also be taken to stop the human population of mental midgets.

Comically enough, there are still some of the typical responses that seem to be very confused about the difference in animal welfare, which I believe we can all agree on is the correct direction for animals, versus animal rights. The extreme viewpoint of completely stopping the humane processing is not about humane handling and treatment, it is far more animal rights. When people support the restoration of equine processing plants within the U.S., they are not saying to make those plants as inefficient and dangerous as possible. Why would they? That is a completely opposite track for any business model; it is in the company’s best interests to see that the plants are designed for maximum efficiency and maximum safety of both animals and humans. It is in the buyer’s best interest to make sure they are able to keep the plant operating by taking care of the animals. Any person in business actually understands they must protect their entire investment; but, there again we see some of the usual suspects posting that isn’t the case. Any reasonable person will see that outright fallacy of such claims since it is a business operation.

But the funniest of all was Brenda Lee’s use of the phrase, “…you Aggi people…” Ha, ha, ha. Really, Brenda Lee? If you are incapable of comprehending all the ways that agriculture, including animal agriculture, benefit your life then you shouldn’t be debating any issue that is relative to agriculture. Should you care to learn, there are multiple by-products used in every day life that stem from agriculture. Just so you understand a few, I will rename some. Do you use face cream, tooth paste, human vaccine, anti-freeze, or drive on asphalt? If you use any one or combination of, then you are using animal by-products. Do you think those products magically appear or are pulled out of a hat? They aren’t. Those by-products come from animals that are processed. Yes, some of the very things you couldn’t live without are a benefit of the very thing you’ve stated you want to eliminate. That makes absolutely NO sense. But then, when considering the complaints of the anti-just about everything gang, the entire argument is much more a house of cards.

https://www.facebook.com/pages/United-Profiteers-for-Horse-Slaughter-The-Truth/285997518077706

More truths! How can you turn a blind eye to these facts? Go onto this site and read the horror stories. Read about all the fine race horses discarded, sent to slaughter without even a chance of being adopted. Look at the pictures of the emaciated and wounded horses that died at the hands of the feed lot “caretakers”! Can you pro-slaughter people deny any of this? Do you have any explanation? Why would you want this to continue? This is a disgrace for all Americans!

@barb guess what YOU are wrong again. I HAD gestional diabties. I WAS given insulin that was MADE BY EQUINE serum. IT says it RIGHT ON MY BOX. expires 12/2011
I used the same insulin for 7 months of my pregnancy just last yr, MY DAD who is a diabetic has the exact same stuff, as my MIL. sorry you are WRONG, SOME insulin is made by EQUINE SERUM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Dear Daphne;
If you or any of your family members are injecting what you believe is insulin and the label for it contains the words “Horse Serum” or “Equine Serum” you are:

1.) Using the wrong medication for diabetes and are
2.) Lucky to be alive -or-
3.) Lying

So which is it?

Based on all of your previous posts, I’m going with number 3.

Robert: Again, a big thank you! I find her comments to be somewhat comical now. She keeps opening her mouth and actually supporting our side with her own words. It’s amusing!

“MUSKOGEE, OK — A man and a woman face charges in a shocking animal abuse case in Muskogee County. The animal abuse investigation began with a Crime Stoppers tip to Muskogee Police. It led to the arrest of 26-year-old Austin Mullins. He is accused of taking a seven-week-old Jack Russell terrier puppy named, Joplin, to Hopewell Park east of Muskogee and shooting it up to ten times with a .22. Mullins is now charged with animal cruelty. Investigators say the dog belonged to 23-year-old Krystal Lewis. Deputies say once Joplin was killed, the dog was brought to her apartment, where she skinned it. “This is the worst case of animal cruelty that I have investigated,” said Muskogee County Sheriff’s Deputy George Roberson. Roberson says Lewis intended to skin the dog to make a belt out of the hide. Lewis, who turned herself in on Sunday, is also charged with animal cruelty. The judge in the case ordered a mental competency evaluation for both Mullins and Lewis.”

Isn’t it curious that this is considered a crime and abuse but doing the same thing to a foal or adult horse is not?! Foals are sent to slaughter (see link below) and are skinned alive for European buyers who insist that the meat is sweeter if the foal is still alive when skinned. The skin is used for various items such as the famous “Corinthian leather” in new cars! Isn’t it curious that THIS is not illegal or consider abuse? I guess when big money is involved and a group of humans are doing these acts, it’s consider “progress” and “industry”!!

http://www.greenhorn-horse-facts.com/nursemare.html

Daphne, your uninformed leader posted this to you yesterday (unless it’s another Daphne) “The studies have been done – Government inspectors constantly test the meat out of ALL plants – in Canada and Mexico all of the EU horse plants go through periodic audits for drug residue in meat. THERE HAS NEVER BEEN A SINGLE SAMPLE OF HORSE MEAT IN EITHER CANADA OR MEXICO WITH UNACCEPTABLE LEVELS OF BUTE – NOT EVER – NOT EVEN ONCE – NADA!”

Would you please tell her that her statement is a flat out lie. First, there are NO ACCEPTABLE LEVELS OF BUTE. IT IS BANNED in food animals. The studies she is using are either on European horses, not US horses or have nothing to do with equines. They are referencing animals other than horses. In 2004, the USDA ran a pilot at Cavel using the appropriate test to determine bute residues (kidney assay, not muscle tissue). They did indeed find many horses that tested positive but after the pilot, returned to the standard test that doesn’t detect bute. In April of this year, the EU FVO released a report on testing in Mexico on US horses. http://tiny.cc/5gxpg Not only did they find bute but the report also revealed that every one of the horses had falsified paperwork stating the horses were drug free. When a substance is banned, it is banned. Period. No withdrawal. Another banned substance is Clenbuterol that is widely used. They keep bantering back and forth about running tests and it leaves the meat, etc. Don’t they understand banned means banned? One dose of any banned substance and the horse can NEVER be slaughtered for human consumption. Honestly, the mindset is amazing. The EU and FDA run extensive studies before banning medications but they know better.

It is amazing that the information is out there in spades and Wallis continues to ignore it and keeps her supporters in the dark. Why do you think she never shared that report with you? it’s because it blows her argument out of the water so instead she lies to everyone. Just like the 1,000 jobs she keeps promising when the combined total from the 3 plants was about 30 jobs held by American citizens or the revenue lost that never went to the US to begin with. Honestly, support horse slaughter but not with lies. It’s no wonder you have all your information mixed up – look at what you’re being fed.

Daphne, I must apologize for misstating something in my last email. The EU and the US does not test for bute because it is banned. Unfortunately, they assume if an owner has given their animal bute, they’re not sending it to slaughter. The test in Mexico found banned substances but did not test for bute. To properly test for bute, the kidneys must be assayed and the tests they use don’t do that. The other information was correct on the bute positives from pilot when the plants were open. We obtained that from a FOIA. In addition, a peer reviewed published paper in Food and Chemical Toxicology studied 68 Thoroughbreds that were headed to slaughter. They used TBs because the vet records were accessible. Of the 68, 18 went to slaughter. All had received bute. Of the 50 remaining, 16 were studied and all 16 had received bute.

The bottom line is that if you don’t test for it, you’re not going to find it. The standard tests do not detect bute. In any event, Wallis’ claim that bute was never detected is false. All she needs to do is pull a FOIA.

This is a good vet paper from Ireland on bute based on EU regulations – http://www.equinewelfarealliance.org/uploads/Ireland_-_bute.pdf. The background info is very informative and on the second page, see the Leakage section on the consequence for sending an animal that should not have been sent.

press release. Feel free to circulate and post widely.
PRESS RELEASE: Equine Scientists Debunk Activist Horsemeat Health Risk Claims
archive.constantcontact.com
Four prominent equine scientists, Dr. Don Henneke, Phd, Dr. Sheryl King, Phd, PAS, Dr. William Day, Phd and Dr. Patricia Evans, EdD, have written a strongly worded letter to the Journal of Food and Chemical Toxicology in regards to a February 2010 paper, “Association of phenylbutzone usage in horses…

link is http://archive.constantcontact.com/fs024/1103685263837/archive/1107973493615.html PRESS RELEASE: Equine Scientists Debunk Activist Horsemeat Health Risk Claims
archive.constantcontact.com
Four prominent equine scientists, Dr. Don Henneke, Phd, Dr. Sheryl King, Phd, PA…S, Dr. William Day, Phd and Dr. Patricia Evans, EdD, have written a strongly worded letter to the Journal of Food and Chemical Toxicology in regards to a February 2010 paper, “Association of phenylbutzone usage in horses…See More. This is the link to the letter.

http://campaign.r20.constantcontact.com/render?llr=omaglqdab&v=0012ndadPBmR-IdaCVokeF0-VW-O25ukHw4XeDFxrV05wZ3rCRyUuEJyUlKmvypn1KbqjG9n5QxeQlnK5fvU-oXw7EIzq53926sewh85uZkaWlSk0dt0CdPH46Z7ojV4PofVdIhsXvystinI4K1RnG6J_mSbe0l10sSAO2Y-9v1teqnqLbmCIZzqF1rNxSoN5vagg_EKs7-k3HILtvK4CzAYY8cTfPOiKuo30ODOJX2IyCO5txOmJ1_5sYhDCIoP4EBa2rVfBaPeDeZcWNMdQ8ucA%3D%3D

EQUINE WELFARE ALLIANCE
PRESS RELEASE

October 4, 2011
 
FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
 
Contacts:

John Holland | 540.268.5693 | john@equinewelfarealliance.org
 
Vicki Tobin | 630.961.9292 |  vicki@equinewelfarealliance.org 
  
Equine instructors face off against medical experts over horse meat

AND

http://horsebackmagazine.com/hb/archives/11852

EWA Strongly Rebukes Letter Criticizing Landmark Study While Ignoring Food Trade Publication Tainted Meat Warning
October 5, 2011

“Chicago (EWA) – In a press release today titled “Equine Scientists Debunk Horsemeat Health Risk Claims”, United Horsemen (UH), an extremist pro horse slaughter group, cited a letter from four equine instructors ostensibly written to the Journal of Food and Chemical Toxicology complaining about the accuracy of the landmark study that found that the meat derived from horses administered the carcinogen phenylbutazone (PBZ/bute) is being shipped to the European Union for human consumption.
In an embarrassing attempt to discredit the peer reviewed paper, Association of phenylbutazone usage with horses bought for slaughter: A public health risk, the instructors cherry picked facts to make their case, but merely succeeded in demonstrating the risk of offering a professional opinion outside of one’s area of expertise.
None of the authors of the UH letter are medical doctors and they provided no information that is contrary to the mandate by the EU and FDA banning Phenylbutazone in all food producing animals, including horses.
The letter begins by stating the paper’s authors did not cite the levels of Phenylbutazone (PZB, bute) in the study horses. But there are no acceptable levels. One only needs to prove the administration of bute at any time in the horse’s life to make the horse ineligible for human consumption.”

Reading all the junk spewed on here just concretes what is public knowledge already. This was, is and always will be about greed. When you have people running at the mouth about how anti’s should pay for the horses being overbred because of irresponsibility, that we should put up and shut up and support these unwanted horses, it leaves me in a balled up position from laughter. I know I most undoubtly spend in a weeks pay with rescue horses more than any of these folks who continue to support irresponsibility have paid most likely in their life times to support a neglected horse or any other animal. I currenlty have 8 here, most of whom pro’s would call animals that are used up, with no purpose. Those animals happily serve children who need animal interaction every day of their lives. They might not serve a pro’s purpose to line their wallets, instead they serve the purpose of helping mankind. Something the noble animal has done through out it’s history of existence in our Nation. As for the wild mustang propaganda. Get a grip. Leave the Mustangs alone and their population will control itself on it’s own, as it did before invasion. The BLM is about greed once again, serving special interest ranchers and nothing about the preservation they were created for. As I said one word has, does and always will describe the pro cause GREED.

Its no surprise that United Horsemen FB page has not yet posted the research for bute that they have been crying for. It is proof that bute is in slaughter horses and that it can be deadly. Is anyone taking bets that they will continue to sing the same old song even now that they have the research that proves what we have been saying. Its also a pretty good bet that Daphane won’t be back either. She’s got nothing now!

http://rtfitch.wordpress.com/2011/10/05/author-of-bute-artical-blasts-wallis%e2%80%99-letter-as-%e2%80%9cnonsense%e2%80%9d/

Tainted US Horse Meat Puts World Consumers At Risk
http://www.foodproductiondaily.com/Quality-Safety/Tainted-US-horse-meat-puts-world-consumers-at-risk-welfare-body
http://www.foodproductiondaily.com

Daphne, you won’t read RTs information (that’s a response from a medical doctor) but you’ll read propaganda from Wallis on bute from people that are not qualified to render a critique of a peer reviewed published paper? That’s funny. Your first clue should have been that not one MD authored the letter. Second clue is that you don’t make false statements about people (John Holland) in a professional letter that has nothing to do with the subject. Bashing orgs or people only shows the motive behind the letter. That mickey mouse letter couldn’t get published anywhere except in Wallis World and is certainly not going to remove a ban on a drug that is harmful to consumers. Do you think a group of medical doctors is going to lift a ban because someone falsely thinks John is associated with PETA or HSUS?

It doesn’t matter what you say, what I say or what Wallis’ propagandists say. Bute (along with several other meds) are banned. One dose and the horse can never go to slaughter. No withdrawal. No acceptable levels. Banned. Why is it that slaughter proponents have such a difficult time following laws be they drug, transport or humane? Wallis wants to open a “regulated “plant but has already demonstrated that she can’t even follow the laws that are already in place.

So you and Wallis can wax on about tests, such as blood tests that don’t detect bute residues, how much you have to eat, or incorrect information like you can’t find a trace of it in the kidneys after 48 hours (that’s a good one!), bashing HSUS and on and on. Just follow Wallis’ propaganda like a lemming without any research of your own.

First – R. T. Fitch is NOT an authority on drug residue. Any written information he supplies will be written first with drama (it is easy to suck in other extremists because they’re drawn by drama like a moth to flames). Referencing any of Mr. Fitch’s work as a scientific claim or rebuttal is completely useless. His goal is to sell ice to the Eskimos through the written word, he’s found some real followers.

The drug withdrawl time and testing has been done by actual scientists who aren’t paid lackeys for H$U$ or any other extremist viewpoint. They were four respected professionals. Just because their findings don’t support your wild claims doesn’t negate either the study or their expertise. No matter how much you’d like that to be true.

What I find so ironic, and rather moronic too, is that the anti-use extremists scream, yell, and pound their chests trying to get an actual use for these horses stopped. When looking at the overall picture, common sense will dictate that you can’t close a market off and have a beneficial outcome. It doesn’t work that way. Cold, hard statistics have proven that closing the U.S. processing plants has been an epic failure. Yes, a FAILURE. Yet, with the same inability to grasp the big picture, extremists such as Robert M, Jan Myers, Barbara, Suzanne, Vicki, and Brenda Lee all would have people believe that the numbers of horses being abandoned and neglected either don’t exist or are so minimal as to not be significant. That would be a lie. Nothing more than a straight out, bald-faced lie. Statistics are cold and impersonal, they could care less what somebody’s agenda is, and those same statistics have proven the increase in abandonment and neglect cases. Simply because those numbers do not support their view, they’ll claim they don’t exist. They do. Closing your eyes to those numbers doesn’t make them go away.

Then we hear the squeaky rubuttal that the American Quarter Horse Assoc (AQHA) hasn’t had a decrease in the number of foals being registered. Despite the fact, yep another fact, that the AQHA can simply run a report to show the breeding and registration trend as having a large decline, you’ll read a post that claims that isn’t true. So now what? The AQHA, APHA, and ApHC are all in cahoots because they’ve run numbers showing the breeding and registration has dropped? Significantly. Is this a conspiracy so all these foals that the breed registries aren’t seeing registered are just being hidden in the closet so they can jump out and be registered in a moments notice because they exist? Funny. Comical actually.

Here’s yet another reality the extremists are refusing to acknowledge. The three major stock horse breed registries show a dramatic decline in horses being raised. Declined, decreased, smaller than previously. How else can we phrase it so the extremists can grasp that concept? Well, perhaps here’s what’s really happening. Facts and statistics, research and experts only count when they say what the extremists want them to. When their information doesn’t support the extreme claims, they attempt to discredit the sources or outright lie and state the information doesn’t exist. That would be yet another lie.

There is a wealth of information available, non-biased works. There is no reason anyone would have to buy into the extremist viewpoint unless they are drawn by drama and the facts be damned! If you want non-biased information, visit the United Horseman’s page on Facebook. You’ll find information from multiple resources.

Wrong again, Daphne. The EU and the FDA banned bute because of the numerous effects on humans, including death, not a few kids. The tests were extensive. It is not only banned in food animals but the drug was withdrawn from the market for humans. Please do some research before you speak on something you know nothing about. Talk to medical doctors, not propagandists.

Once again, you are spewing “rights” that are not relevant. The owners are selling their horses at auction. When slaughter ends, you will still have the right to sell your horse. The legislation doesn’t remove the right to sell a horse nor does it stop you from slaughtering your own horse and eating it. Your American rights and freedoms will remain as they are today.

Sorry, but medical doctors say what and what isn’t acceptable in medications in food animals. Vets treat animals, not humans. Scientists don’t practice medicine. Once again READ the Irish white paper. Perhaps you will understand “drug disposition, metabolism and excretion” and how residues can build in someone’s system without being detected in meat. If you READ the information in the article from a medical doctor posted on RTs blog, perhaps you will learn something and not be spouting off on something you don’t understand or have the knowledge to speak to.

The only way you could prove your point is to perform a study that would have to last for many years. One group would eat horsemeat from US horses, the other wouldn’t. Good luck trying to get volunteers when you tell them you want them to eat a meat with substances banned in food animals to study how long it may take for them to develop cancer. Do you want to volunteer? Do you have millions of dollars to fund such a study?

Vicki, you talk about pro-industry people calling you names, yet the ironic part is that you’re the one popping off names. You think that’ll misdirect? Then you have a low opinion of industry professionals if you think we’re swayed by false accusations, name calling, and even outright lies. Once somebody has a working knowledge of the industry, it is easy to see through you all.

You keep hitting the same old wall of “slaughter is just as available” as ever. There again, just a small amount of thought and common sense will draw the same conclusions; if plants have been closed in the U.S. then obviously access is no longer as available. That is a very simple concept, Vicki. Most of us can understand that. If you’re having a hard time understanding this model, you can take a kindergarten approach and set out some cherios and a bowl. Take away the bowl and see where you have a spot to place the cherios. Maybe seeing something right in front of yourself will help you understand.

You’re hoping that people buy into your rabid claims that the economy is the only factor negatively impacting the current horse industry. Yet again, you’re attempting to avoid your role in the damage inflicted on both horses and the related industries. If you had gotten your way with plant closures in the U.S. and the welfare of horses had NOT declined, you may have some credibility. But you don’t. Not once have you admitted that your way is damaging. Heck no, you wouldn’t want to admit you were wrong, would you! In fact, in the height of foolishness, you not only created a damaged market, you want to continue to damage the entire industry even further!

It is this latter part that proves without a shadow of a doubt that a) you cannot admit your failure of improving horse welfare, b) you’ve locked onto one idea come hell or high water and you refuse to learn more about the entire issue, and c) your absolute intent is to damage horse welfare and the industry even further.

Additionally, you also claim that Americans as a rule are against slaughter. Actually, most Americans could care less. They are far removed from their food sources and no longer have an understanding of agriculture as a whole or animal agriculture specifically. There are always a few extremists, you can call yourselves bunny huggers or whatever, that will latch onto a cause. It isn’t because they understand it, really care about it, or have much or any knowledge of an industry. It is just a “cause” they can feel good about. After all, as long as it strokes your egos, who cares about the actual and real damage caused by people of your ilk. And really, isn’t that what you’re hoping for? To attract people to your cause who don’t research the issue? After all, if they did, you’d be losing followers left and right.

Oh brother, Lynette, did you really type that with a straight face? Jumping from being actually in a horse business to not liking trees? Huh? If you’re incapable of understanding that horses, just like any other industry, are a business then you shouldn’t be talking of things you don’t know about. Although, I can see where you’d make a good little follower.

Your comment (rant more accurately) showed you to be just one of the back yard owners who probably equates a horse to a pet. You don’t have to like it, but horses are classified as livestock under the law. You also don’t have to like that many people are in a business. What other industries do you expect to not make money? And really, since related horse businesses also must make money for those people to survive, why would you expect only horse industries to never provide a return? That is completely, utterly, and wholeheartedly ignorant.

What do you do for income? Would you like it if people tried to force you to make no money at it? Doesn’t make sense, does it. So why do you think you should have the right to demand people in the horse industry have no income off it? Or, is that some kind of modern nut-job “stimulus” plan….

So, if you’re spending all that time worrying your horse will be stolen, brand the damned thing! Or is that an anti-theft program you don’t know anything about. In fact, if your horse is dark coated, I’d suggest a freeze brand done by a professional. It stands out like a neon sign. It is why brand enforcement states have such low incidence of thefts compared to non-brand enforcement states. Read up on it if you can’t be bothered with facts.

As for insinuating you’re a good rider – maybe you are. Maybe you aren’t. We just have your own opinion of yourself to read here. Since you obviously believe your own personal opinion is of far greater importance than those who’re actually in the industry, well, kinda makes it seem likely that you’re probably not the horsewoman you claim either.

Lynette, you proved the point perfectly. You jump off the deep end, but should’ve taken a life preserver with you when you did. You’re definitely over your head.

So, what, exactly do you think horses are if they’re not livestock? Do you think they’re “pets,” “companion animals,” “the new designer accessory?” Sure, you can put a horse in your little acreage and call it a unicorn if you want, it doesn’t change the fact that horses and specific equidae diseases are federally – yes, federally – listed right in with cattle, sheep, swine, goats, and llamas. Yep, Equine Infectious Anemia (EIA) is a federally monitored program with specific tests approved for said test. Those labs must be federally approved in order to run those tests. Were you aware only federally accredited veterinarians can run those tests? Sense a theme yet, Lynette? The theme of “federal” level?

Since I actually know where the federal definition of animals exists – quote your source that says “USDA” classes horses as companion animals. Time to put your source out here.

What is more, doubt states themselves class horses as livestock? Really? You shouldn’t. But then again, just one more FACT that would get in the way of anti-use people wanting to convince followers that horses are pets, companion animals to be treated like every day is another day in Disneyland. Meanwhile, back in the real world…

Cowhorse: First, I have recently read that the government has admitted that the classification of “livestock” for horses is not fitting. They want to reclassify them as “companion animals” for the most part, even though some are used for work. Even if they are not reclassified, “livestock” does not mean “meat”. So get off that soapbox! We all know what the classification is — it doesn’t add any weight to your argument and we don’t care. Second, if you’re going to use idioms to support your conversation in this debate, please use them correctly. Twice today you’ve written the phrase, “they could care less”. If you even stop to think about that phrase, you’d realize that it makes no sense — just as your many arguments. If someone could, indeed, care less about something, then “that something” must be important. I can excuse typos — all of us make them. These were not typos. Third, we’ve heard ad nauseum that it’s a “horse business”. Okay, but it’s not a “meat business”. What kind of “non-meat” business decides that they can just kill overstock? What kind of sick minds are okay with this? Would you feel the same if you were in the “dog-breeding” business? None of you pro killers have answered any of our questions and none of you have provided any proof to back what you say. You just repeat the same Wallis propaganda over and over with no references to any sound reports and statistics. Your own leader has been “outed” for asking her sheep to falsify the petition signatures and if you read the transcripts of her speeches it is quite clear that she’s a lunatic. And our dear friend Daphne just makes up things as she goes along so her comments are no longer worth addressing.

Oops, Barbara, you can’t defend your position so NOW you want to take apart phrases? Really? Think going off on that kind of misdirect will gain you readership or support? Hope you’re not holding your breath.

Since you’ve already been caught with your proverbial pants down regarding falsification of claims regarding S Wallis, I’d think you’d want to be careful of outright lies. Then again, maybe not. If it is the only way you can draw support, you probably do need to either hide or cover up the truth. However, before you ever quote any person as saying a given thing, you have to be able to back it up.

So now you’ve only heard that horses are going to be reclassified as companion animals? How’d you guys go from saying horses are classified as companion animals to they want to reclassify? Which is it. Ante on up, Barbara, quote your “federal” source and the law that classifies horses as companion animals.

Ouch, both cows and horses get a black eye with a handle like that.

Yup, I am making so much money that I will have to work a few more years before retirement. I owe a legal team more than you can make in a year, Cowpie, and everything, related to equine benevolence, runs in the red. Would you like to see our books, it’s no problem and it will put your idiot rant on how folks with morals and mind do what they do to bed. You have to be kidding me…we work so that we can support our efforts, good ole, taxpaying Americans.

Glad to see that you are around, Cowpie, I was worried that you may have come to some sort of grizzly end or that there was an emergency in your family and I wouldn’t wish that on anyone. Then it came to me that your handler might have put the brakes on you because every time you open your mouth in public her bloody cause slips back a notch or two. Another theory was that your wife finally slapped you upside your head and said that your quest was no way to set an example for your young family. Perhaps it was a combination of all of the above…but good to have your lack of wit and intelligence out on the web, again. You are our very best poster child for why NOT to follow the sickness that you do.
Thanks again.

Question,The anit-slaughter people and groups you all want equing processsing stoped,it has been stoped here in the USA,now you wnat transportation of American equines for processing to mexico and canada and other countries stoped also.What do you suggest people do with all these horses.You say stop breeding,ok fine.What about all the horses that are already here and all the ones thaat are carring foals due to foal the comming year.What do you plan on doing with these leftover horses that people can not afford to care for anylonger. wild horses-you all want them to be left alone also not managed or delt with just left alone to be free,ok fine,how will they survive with out food and water,the lands are drying up and winter is comming on and they are still breeding like rabbits.There are two year olds dropping foals left and right,we all know that is not good for the horse or the foal.you all say the land is bad because of the cattle ranchers,the cattle destroy the land,you are wrong,horses destroy the laand faster then cattle and cattle feed the world,not horses thanks to most of you. You want to save and protect the horses,i understand thaat i realy do i have a horse and would do just about anything to keep her with me,but life dosn’t always work out like we want,you have made it worse for the equines in America and the people who care for them.

Okiestorm1: Death is not a birth-control method. Death is not a population-control method. All the ones you say are “carrying foals” should not be carrying foals! Why are these mares being bred? “Leftover horses”? The term itself shows the mentality of pro-slaughter! People who cannot afford to care for their horses must sell them to a good home. The economy is terrible and they won’t get much but they will get something. If not, give them to a good home. Of course, the kill buyers are still there waiting — so they can still sell to them! As for the wild horses, the big cattle ranchers that want to graze that land don’t want these horses to survive. Them want all of the gone! If they are overbreeding, the population will take care of itself if the winter is harsh. Nature isn’t always kind but it is wise. Of course, if the predators hadn’t been wiped out by the same people who want to kill all the wild horses, there wouldn’t be a problem.

Daphne: This is your quote: “If she throws a foal that is a GREAT foal and carrys her traits then she will be bred to my stud in about 4 yrs after her first foal.” REPEAT: “…then SHE WILL BE BRED TO MY STUD…” What part of your own words do you not understand? You said it plain as day!! Now, you’re denying it.

This is my quote: “HOPEFULLY, the economy will lift a bit by then and this poor offspring won’t be killed.” Did I say it WOULD go to slaughter? NO! Can you read?

You are absolutely idiotic! You don’t even know what you say in your posts. I think you need some serious bi-polar medication!!

Why in god’s name “must I be one of the backyard wanna bees” (your words) if I am denouncing them as irresponsible breeders? You are an idiot!! Do NOT address me again. I have no time for your insane babbling. I will address those who can think and write clearly without garbled and nonsensical blathering! You are no longer amusing — just very disturbing and sad.

omg I SAID IN 4 YRS. SO when she has a foal in 2013 she will NOT ahve another till 2017 or 2018 so if thats CONT. to breed her over and over then LADY something is seriously wrong with you.

YOU keep saying its the RESPONSIBLE breeders that are sending horses to slaughter, WELL GUESS what if they are ITS THEIR RIGHT and THEIR CHOICE TO do it. NO ONE should tell ANYONE that owns a horse what they CAN”T or CAN do unless that person is abusing or neglecting that horse. SO THERE> you MY DEAR are NOT worth the time to even TALK TO.

Barbara, you really do swing on the end of your own rope. You keep implying breeders are the root of all evil. Yet, because of breeders domestic horses are better athletes than 50 years ago. Because of breeders, quality horses are promoted. It is also because of breeders that genetic research has gone on. And you anti-use people have done what again? Oh yeah, you’ve chased equine processing plants out of the U.S. thus leaving horses to be trucked internationally. You’ve had a major role in damaging a market and when that market is damaged, it negatively impacts all related businesses. Yeah, you’re really getting something done that is worth tooting your own horn about. Mmmm hmmm. Yeah. Good job.

You, Barbara have also charged ahead like a Toyota with no brakes screaming about breeders have to stop breeding when the reality is the wild horse herds are the largest unchecked population of equines. Yet, you don’t want the BLM to manage those horse herds. Is it you just don’t like equine professionals? Have a personal vendetta against them that prevents you from seeing the big picture? You can’t have it both ways and you were called on it by a previous post.

And let’s get right back to this classification thing, Barbara. You now have to admit you don’t have a source you can cite regarding horses being classified as companion animals. So will you now stop saying they’re companion animals? Or, despite not having an actual legal classification, will you continue to simply say they are companion animals because YOU say so? Which is it now?

You can’t say you read it, heard it, or saw it in a crystal ball and somehow just “know” that federally horses are going to be reclassified. Livestock is still livestock regardless of whether you trot out your back door and just pet on it.

Ha ha ha, poor little Lynette, got your little dander up, huh? Now THAT was a babble post. You think you now sound intelligent? Yeah, you really got me there talking about how AQHA horses are such dogs. I’m hoping I can quit laughing long enough to respond. Do you really think it is skin off anyone’s nose if you don’t like Quarter Horses? Do you think it matters if your goal is to have a trail horse versus a performance horse? No, it really doesn’t. See, you have to try and degrade the world’s top performance horse breed (AQHA) to try and make yourself sound intelligent. It doesn’t, but have at your tantrum because it is very hillarious.

Since you and Barbara especially can’t seem to figure out there is actually a law that defines the classification horses are, I’ll do it for you. Which is why you couldn’t cite any law that states horses are companion animals.

CFR TITLE 9: ANIMALS AND ANIMAL PRODUCTS Farm animal means any domestic species of cattle, sheep, swine, goats, llamas, or horses, which are normally and have historically, been kept and raised on farms in the United States, and used or intended for use as food or fiber, or for improving animal nutrition, breeding, management, or production efficiency, or for improving the quality of food or fiber. This term also includes animals such as rabbits, mink, and chinchilla, when they are used solely for purposes of meat or fur, and animals such as horses and llamas when used solely as work and pack animals.

So, you guys catch the part where “horses” are specifically referenced? But hey, what is a little legality anyway, doesn’t stop your rants.

Lynette: Thanks! I am growing very tired of their same old rhetoric. It was amusing but now has become tiring because they can’t think of anything new and can’t back what they bring up over and over. Most don’t have the mental skills to have a logical debate. Instead, they jump on and twist what we say so that we have to actually copy and paste our quotes to show them again, after which there is “silence” for a short time while they try to come up with something else to say! Yep, time for us to move on. These are the same folks with the same mentality as those on the UH FB site. Their “logic” fails time after time. I loved the one who asked why dogs still get cancer if horse meat in pet food was banned years ago. Are you kidding me? That’s the so-called “logic” of these killers.

OK YOU ALL ARE JUST PLAN nuts. i do not NEED THE INSULIN ANYMORE BECAUSE i ONLY NEEDed it while I was pregnant with my last child.

as for aqha horses ,IF you limit the registrations of only certain horses, you run into the problem of genetic flaws, hypp, herda, owls, IF you only reg. certain foals then you run into the problem of NOT being able to IMPROVE the bloodlines. And those ppl who just bred, DO NOT HAVE REG> QH OR APHA horse, they are BACKYARD breeders who just want to have a foal.

as for ppl getting rid of their horses NOT EVERYONE keeps horses for life, and SOME ppl GET OUT OF horses altogether. The gentleman down the rd from me, has had horses most of his life, He lost his wife last yr, and WANTS to get out of horses, so him selling them is IRRESPONSIBLE to you? GIVE me a break. NOT everyone KEEPS horses for life. I have sold many horses in my life, because I outgrew them, I do not ride that dicipline, etc.
NOT one of us have said we are HORSE KILLERS< just because we are PRO slaughter DOESN"T mean that we are horse killers, or unacring. I just spent all day holding the head of my stud, while the vets worked on him. SO i guess thats uncarring to you all?

and have you NOT heard of all the horses that were being STOLEN out of the pens in FL, have you NOT looked on NETPOSSE of the hundreds of horses taht have been stolen? 85% of the biggest thefts have skyrocketed since the houses have closed, where the heck have you all been. OH thats right I forgot you all live in disney world.

http://www.awionline.org/ht/d/sp/i/12919/pid/12919

Here are facts for you.

ok and I QUOTE from barbara
“” Really? Don’t “want them”?? This is irresponsible.

that there is what you said, so in your own words someone who doesn’t want the horse any more is irresponsible IF they want to get rid of that horse.

AQHA,announced yesterday that they support the reopening of the equine processing plants here in America.Thank you AQHA and thank you Farm and Dairy for letting us all vent our side of this debate.

Most of the major stock horse breeds have went on record that the support the restoration of equine processing plants. The reopening of plants within our own country would allow the process to be monitored at all times to ensure humane and quality control and any upgrades to the plants themselves would be done prior to opening for business.

Such a market would help improve the welfare of horses during this difficult economic time and would help provide stability and a base market for cull horses. There isn’t anything wrong with expecting a business to operate and for people to be able to sell their horses.

If there is a problem with the horse and some of the activists have the burning desire to “save” that horse, they have as much right to sit at those sales and buy those horses to take home. That would be consistent with a free enterprise market. It is curious that the horse industry is under attack by zealots who feel nobody should be allowed to make money or even to break even on their investment. You can absolutely love the horses, want the best for them, train and promote them to that end, but when it comes to paying the bills the horses are still a business. If you have one that can’t help support itself in some manner, it is customary to resell that horse. Again, rescues and anyone else wanting to “save” a horse is more then welcome to make the financial investment to purchase that horse(s) at any time.

Cowhorse:

Please stop trying to cloak the attempts to reestablish slaughter plants as an altruistic effort to “improve the welfare of horses” —

While there are still some who are new to this and may be swayed by the “slaughter is better than starvation” argument, most of those who been around a while and have taken the time to understand the issue know that catch words like “humane”, “welfare”, and “unwanted horses” have absolutely *nothing* to do with the real reasons driving the push to reopen slaughterhouses.

Of course, you already knew that didn’t you…?

Cowhorse, yes, the breed associations but they do not represent their members. The one and only time the AQHA polled their membership, the majority was opposed to horse slaughter so they ignored the results.

Would you expect anything else from breed registries like the AQHA? Breed and dump.

The only thing that will bring stability back is an improved economy. You are totally ignoring the fact that the very horses you describe are still being slaughtered. The same number of horses are being slaughtered as when the plants were open. It is not, has not and will not control the population. All you are doing is propping up the slaughter pipeline.

Every business in this country has cut back. They aren’t producing more than they can sell. Some car companies have waiting lists. Why should breeders be any different? To continue to over produce and then expect someone else to provide a place for their excess inventory is not only fiscally irresponsible but just plain arrogant. Free enterprise is producing a product that someone wants to buy. Not overproducing and then expecting someone else to provide an outlet for your mistakes. That’s not a free enterprise market, it’s another handout from the government. You will be forcing a national passport system down the throats of all horse owners and more government regulation to administer the program. It will cost ALL taxpayers and be another burden on horse owners so a small minority can continue to be irresponsible.

We had plants in our own country and they were as bad, if not worse, than Canada and Mexico. Been there, done that. There is no such thing as humane or regulated when it comes to horses. It has been proven over and over again. They can’t even follow the meager regulations that are in place now – falsified coggins, falsified EIDs, transport, etc. In case you haven’t noticed, the slightest change to make life more tolerable for slaughter horses, like banning double deckers, is opposed.

Vicki! there is a market for horse meat, horses are not like cars,and the only ones forceing the tax payers to pay thier money to care for the unwanted horses are the AR groups and HSUS. HSUS has come up with thier way of saveing all the pretty horses but they want our lands and our money to do it! Yes this is about HSUS makeing rules and regulations then letting everyone else clean up the mess.People have a right to make a profit off thier livestock and that includes horses!It is not stated anywhere that a person has to sell thier horse for slaughter but it is thier right to do so if they choose. Yes ROBERT, i did know AQHA supports equine processing, i said they announced it,aka,they put out a short letter to state thier view!

aqha SENT a vote out to ALL members, not just ones in a certain state.

I think you are wasting your time arguing with people who lack compassion . They care only about money and are not likely to change. Sociopathy is not curable.

I am not slamming the cattle ranchers, so don’t attack me. I’m merely pointing out that SOME are getting very greedy and the horses and burros take the toll. Not all ranchers are that evil and bless you to those who are not and who are responsible livestock owners and keep the industry regulated and working.

This comment is for the Editor/Moderator ….While I an not trying to tell you what to do, I think this comment thread has gotten out of hand. When someone wishes a tortuous death on any other who has a differing opinion, I dont think the thread is of any value. I cant think of any purpose or benefit that allowing these vicious attacks can serve…

http://www.manesandtailsorganization.org/captive_bolt.htm

Please educate yourselves.

Okiestorm ~ I didn’t realize how misled you really are. First, there is NOT a market for human consumption horse slaughter in the USA. There may be some small niche markets around, but not nearly enough to keep even one plant in business. Second, neither the HSUS nor any other group closed the plants we had down. The people in the states where they were did it. I know the most about Texas because I’m a Texan, but there was already a law on the books from 1949 banning horse slaughter. They just hadn’t been enforcing it, so they started. In Illinois, the people passed a law – they DO have that right you know. The HSUS had nothing whatsoever to do with any of it. Good grief! I the HSUS were that powerful, we wouldn’t be wasting our time trying to reason with people like you.

You do NOT have the right to slaughter your horse for human consumption. Just because you own something doesn’t mean you can do anything you damn well please with it – especially something that’s alive. There are laws against animal cruelty and they’ve been around for a long time. And you certainly don’t have the right to slaughter a horse for human consumption that you can’t prove isn’t contaminated with banned substances. So – Get over it already!

NO tax money is going to take care of “unwanted” horse either. It’s not happening and it never will. Don’t even want it to. You have definitely been listening to Sue Wallis way too much. Can’t you think for yourself or just parrot that woman? Never mind, I already know…

Daphne ~ There is a recession on in this country – The worst since the Great Depression – something you probably never even heard of – and the price of everything has gone down. People’s homes have lost so much value they can’t even sell them for enough to pay off their mortgages! The price of horses will go back up when the prices for everything else does and not before.

Everyone ~ I’m sure you already realize this, but trying to reason with Daphne here is like reasoning with a brick. No, bricks are easier. She’s not even consistent. Personally, I’m beginning to think she’s a troll.

Barbara – you address how sanctuaries are such stellar pillars. Well, I’m here to tell you this much and anyone who is unfamiliar with the realities of many rescues. There are some, I stress the word some, who operate with honesty and integrity where donations actually go to horses that legitimately enter the rescue pipeline. There are equally as many, if not more, that bilk kind hearted people for money. They use that money to buy hay for the few rescue horses AND their own horses. They will run up vet bills on animals that have surgical needs and that can never be usable as anything more than a pasture ornament. Somebody is making a nice chunk of change off this. Those so-called rescues and sanctuaries are no different than the panhandler on the street corner using a dog as their way into people’s wallets. Just these rescue owners are hiding behind a sorry horse. It isn’t about horses or their wellbeing, it is about lining their pockets. They will use donations to feed their own animals, to buy supplies and even land, in addition to vehicles. To attempt to mislead makes you only guilty of duplicity.

Robert M – save your typing, you haven’t illustrated a single useful idea for the care and wellbeing of horses. You just stand on the same little rock saying slaughter is bad. When in fact using all of the byproducts and the meat is a sensible and realistic business. No need to just let horses go on and on when they’re clearly in discomfort from age, illness, or injury. To let that type of situation continue is more horrendous and heartless than anything. Talk about true abusers. Granted, you can’t solicit sympathy if you don’t have a sick poster child horse to hold up to the masses. But hey, don’t let the fact you’ve been found out slow you down.

As for Catherine Ritlaw – you’re banging the sociopath drum, yet your comments are truly the comments of a sociopath. I’m sure any reader who was wondering about the reality of humane horse processing will be able to see what the anti-use crowd is really about. Your mask has slipped for all to see the rabid behavior behind it. I would hope that you would seek professional help for your extreme anger and violent tendancies. With those personality traits you would be the person likely to be beating a horse around the head, or a child for that matter, all because they “made” you mad. For your sake, please, seek help from a qualified mental health professional.

As for the generality of the thread, for any readers curious about the entire issue, they’ll be able to read through and pick out those who’re using violence (Catherine R) as a threat; “…reasoning with a brick. No, bricks are easier.” (Suzanne) as a way to attempt to denigrate a person rather than an issue, and the same mantra that somehow it is more humane to let a horse struggle through age, infirmities, disease, or injury until they can struggle no more as opposed to euthanasia before they get to that end. If there was compassion to their side, you would be reading how horses with such traumatic status’ where mobility or eating is difficult at best would not be forced to live as long as possible. For actual kindness you have to recognize the point where it is the most humane thing to actually let the horse go. To not is causing untold suffering on the part of the horse.

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=264386156925714&set=a.195951057102558.48448.100000629952711&type=1&theater

Do you think that this is humane?

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=2225323026269&set=o.153312518080298&type=1&theater

The faces of horse slaughter. Do these look like old, weak, starving horses? They were when they were rescued from the “holding pens”!

Let’s not forget the guy the stood up at the “Summit” and said he spoke for the audience. He thanked Temple Grandin but told her that her recommendations would be “costly”. And there you have it. Nothing is ever going to change unless you legislate it and force them to change. For horses, the only way to fix it is to end it. End it permanently. No loopholes and no getting around the law.

Temple has stated over and over again that when she visits, everything is fine and then she turns away and everything goes to he**. She also had an interesting slide that gave extremely poor marks to the slaughterhouse workers (referring to slaughter of our food animals). I don’t recall the exact percentage but the percent of workers doing it right all the time was under 10% – something like 6 or 7.

For horses, they are probably not even at 1% and that goes for the former US plants, Canada and Mexico.

oh hey barbera are you gonna tell us that horses can think like us too?
or do you really beleive that horses can think”oh crap im gonna die next, i better run away”. the flight response is activated NOT because they are afraid, but because of the other horses moving around. They can not either fight (head throwing in the box) or flight, try to get away.

BUT in your little disney world you think that horses can athink like we do.

ok FIRST OFF i DO NOT listen to what others say, I DO RESEARCH FOR MYSELF. I have worked at a slaughter house, I have seen the PENATRATING captive bolt WORK. the bolt is moving at a speed of 200psi and when it ENTERS the brain it renders the horse BRAIN dead. THe horse is dead when it is done correctly.
and barb if you have no clue about fight ot flight then maybe you need to go back to school, because if i have to explain what flight or fight means then you have NO BUSINESS trying to talk about horses.
Horse DO NOT and CAN NOT think like US. THEY can’t think to theirselves and say”oh shit im gonna die next” I NEVER said horses can’t think you dolt, I SAID they CAN”T THINK LIKE US. READ WOMEN READ.

I was quoting what temple TOLD a person in front of her, NOT inf ront of ppl. BUT if you must know ask ANDI HARMON, she was there, SHE TALKED TO TEMPLE personnally. temple told her what i quoted. I do not know what house is using it, but i do know it is being used.
TEmple said horse slaughter CAN BE HUMANE IF done correctly. SHe is all for the HUMANE SIDE OF slaughter.

and once again you ASSUME i get my info UH WHEN I DO NOT> I have worked ata slaughter house, I have seen hundreds of horses go thru, NOT one paniced, not one had a botched kill shot. BUT this was down slowly and not in a rush. I have seen the kill box up close and personnal, I have handled both captive bolts and PENTRATATIONG captive bolts, i have handled the electric prod gun. I have watched horses die. and the cool thing was NOT ONE was scared or tried to get away, WHY because it was done CORRECTLY and SLOWLY, not fast. SO trust me ladies I know all about slaughter because I have FIRST HAND Experience with you. DO YOU?
If not then you really can’t tell anyone anything about how slaughter works, you get your info from OLD videos that are so messed up, and show ONLY the botched kills. you MIGHT see out of say 500 horses 3 that are botched that there is not bad . GET REAL GROW UP and why don’t you all stop drinking the cool aid that you friends are feeding you.

In case any pro-slaughter people still have any doubt, this was just posted:

http://news.change.org/stories/inspectors-fear-workers-who-slaughter-horses

Here’s a excerpt, but please read all of the article:

“Canadian officials fear inspectors will be injured or killed as workers manhandle and fire guns at horses. There may also be concern that inspectors will suffer post traumatic stress from observing such brutal treatment of animals. So they abandoned regulatory oversight of the slaughter process.

Horses in Canada are supposed to be stunned prior to slaughter with a rifle or captive bolt gun. (You may remember the captive bolt gun used by the serial killer in the film, No Country for Old Men.) Investigations have shown the horses are beaten, shocked and shoved during this inherently cruel and inhumane process. Commercial horse slaughter for human consumption is not legal in the U.S., but American horses are still sent to Canada, as well as Mexico, for slaughter.”

Oh, Daphne! You’ve actually asked the folks on the UH site whether they have “told you what to say” and whined to them about how mean we are! Perfect! You went so far as to say the WE are calling YOU names. Excuse me but that started with you, m’dear, not us. Poor baby!

What a surprise! A slaughter supporter that can’t answer a few questions. Of course, Daphne is running. They break out in hives when they’re around facts…

Greed and “the bottom line” – slave owners also argued the “my property rights” BS !! We are SUPPOSE to be evolving as human beings…to even THINK of bring horse slaughter back is to regress to ignorant, uncivilized, barbaric thinking. Absolute power corrupts absolutely !! I refuse to drink the cool-aid!!

Interview With a Horse Slaughterer
http://humanityforhorses.blogspot.com/
“Here is an excerpt from Gail Eisnitz’s book “Slaughterhouse” when she interviews a slaughterhouse employee. This is difficult to read.

If this testimony doesn’t horrify you, I don’t know what would. I do know that it is totally unacceptable to me that horses be killed this way. This goes beyond inhumane.”

A horse that is slaughtered immediately ceases to contribute to the economy. A …
See More

I was not going to post on this anymore but I think that if anyone truly thinks that starvation is not painful,then there is something seriously wrong with you!

The ban has been lifted,the USDA will be funded to inspect equine processing plants once again. it has passed it is done get over it.

With all do respect, nope it is not funded, no it should not be funded, and the animal ag community is begining to see that. Here is why, your current herd of excess horses is more then 85% excluded from slaughter, that is nice number and result are more like 95%, but in a nice mood today. The only vialbe way to be profitable is to raise a whole new herd of equines for harvest, which I have said all over the place, but no one says no that is not gonna happen, you know why, I am correct. EU rules forbide transport to their meat market any horse that has had one dose of bute, China is 2/3 more likely to develop aplastic anemia in their populations, they are looking at the reasons for this, and will soon be following the same rules, beef, swine, poultry, this year will follow huge rules for export at a cost to their bottom line, and i for one will be dammed if you are going to go around those rules and cost more for the current ag businesses already in place, cost of hay, grain, and grazing land will go up for cattlemen, and in the end by violating the rules of the EU on imports, they the horse slaguther people are just asking for more rules, which our exports dont need, then you add in that if we progress with this, to export we will ahve to abide by the passport sysytem, and I dont need more rules or more cost, do you???? Open you eyes go read the rules, at the EU go use a google translator read the documents from China’s ministry for food safety, not sure that is the right name, but close, sorry China no disrespect, this is not about, you have a hrse for a few years, medicate it, get to take it to slaughter, think again, your horses are not eligbal at all, this is not 2005 when the cost of things like bute to human life was not known, this is 2011 going into 2012, and guess what bills are pending to ban for ever, export, transportaion to export any of the such for horse slaughter, we who are against it have watched, we have documented the inhumane treatment, the cost, the cause and effect, and will get those bills passed, and in the event that any slaughter plant opens before they are passed alot of people are going to wonder why they cut defense spending but chunked money down a black pit of wasted space. Slaughter is not the option, never has been, never will be, it is a cheap way to be lazy, irresponsible, bad business practice, much like buring toxix drums in the desert, and then going why is that a problem for you.

Marie, couldn’t have said it better. Or should I say it hasn’t been said at all until you said it. I’m so sick of reading all these comments about horse slaughter starting in 60 days yet no where has anyone talked to the EU if they are going to continue to ignore all the falsified paperwork filled in by the guys making the money on horses blood, the KB’s. There is already a campaign in Europe to let the people know where their horse meat is coming from and what it contains. Sue Wallis and her side kick keep saying they have investors but I ask do they have a market? Yes horses are still going to slaughter today but the EU is going to have to get tough on the paperwork soon and our horses just won’t make their restrictions. And so I’m thinking that Wallis is going to try and bypass the EU and go to China. They already have a horse meat producing market there so why buy our toxic meat horses? And on Wallis’s own facebook page, her own people who want horse slaughter are rejecting the NAIS the tracking system the USDA needs if they are going to inspect horses. So what does that tell you about the possibility of the EU buying our horses. No tracking system no market! Maybe Wallis is thinking that China will buy our toxic meat but I don’t know if they will. I don’t really think they are going to ignore their peoples safety like the USDA is ignoring sending our toxic horse meat to other countries. We will have to wait and see.
Marie just like you I say the food safety rules will come into play here and all this nonsense of horse slaughter will go away. It is not even profitable to raise for slaughter. But it scares me that so many people keep talking about it like its a done deal when in fact they can open their slaughter houses but they have a long way to go to be able to sell there horrible product. Not only do they have to get past meat safety they have to get past the 70% of American’s who are against our horse companions being tortured to death. Glad to see someone else see the truth of this issue.

Yes, there can and I dont think I am allowed to post links but they are up on my facebook page for all to read, and by the way, the EU doesn’t have a Medical withdraw time for BUTE, it is a yes or no, their link on my page as well, give bute one dose, it is out of the food chain, they are requiring that of the world, and so will China so, captial letter that one, and the FDA, does not inspect meat, that would be the meat tester in EU, or Canada, since we have not nor will we again soon have horse meat inspectors, if you have ever given your horse bute, and you want to slaughter it for export or for sale, guess what, you are out of luck, you can slaugter it and eat yourself, but you can not slaughter it and sell it/export it, so you might want to go read the reports, and the US is following the same line, sorry??? to burst your bubble, and why would the money you would get from one slaughter horse what is that a couple hundred bucks mean taking a chance with a child,

Daphne, you are correct there is NO TEST FOR bute, and it is not allowed in the EU in horses for meat consuption, give bute you dont get to eat it, to ship to the EU you must have the same forms or similar that meets their standard, we do not have the passport system yet, we will have and bute will again be exculed as they dont let you eat horses there that have had bute, but since you have so kindly pushed the issue, I have been kind enought to email the EU with the intentions of your group, to ask for clarification on this rule. the rules is and has been for any meat imported to EU countries, China is following suit, that you are not allowed to import to their country any equine that has ever had a single does of bute period, it is a violation of international trade rules. For an equine starting in 2013 to be imported as a caracass slaughter or otherwise, it must pass the test, bute no eat no bute eat, you need to stop arguing with me and go argue with someone else, as for the test for bute, there is no test that test blood for bute after 48-72 hours other then testing the dead carcass at which point the blood has contaminated the whole lot, the test your leader claims to have does test, it test for the 48 hour rule for racers, it test for other drugs, but until you post the name manufacture of the company you so aptly claim will test for bute you are full of it, and even if you did get a test the countires that import horse meat wont take it, they say, not you not our fda not our USDA what they get to take into their country, so unless you are not going to give your horse bute dont argue, and the USDA stopped inspecting horse in 2007 the EU started their rules in 2009 think that maybe why you dont have the info you so aptly claim is not there. The rules have changed since the last slaugther plant in the US closed, they are in effect now, and will soon be applied to this country for export, it is a we agree to they way they do it, or guess what we do not import to them, and even if your letter from the FDA says oh cool, they do not get to override a countries Safety Rules for their country

Hey Daphne, read this from Dec 5th this year,
Atamanenko was also concerned by the discrepancies revealed by the report concerning in the new Equine Identity Document (EID) system which is meant to record medical histories and keep horses that have been administered banned drugs from entering the slaughter pipeline. “The EID system is fraught with loopholes that are obviously being taken advantage by predatory kill-buyers looking for product,” said the BC MP. “Clearly the horse meat we are selling for human consumption is not a fit food for humans, especially children.”

According to Atamanenko, the commonly administered drug “phenylbutazone”, more commonly known as ‘horse’s aspirin’, can cause anaplastic anemia in children if consumed in even the tiniest amounts. It was this fact that led the EU to stamp new passports on horses over the age of six months as ineligible for the food supply. “It is reprehensible that we have an industry without such a segregation system,” declared Atamanenko.”

The NDP MP says the overwhelming majority of horses are not raised as food and are commonly administered drugs that are dangerous to people. “It is criminal to sell this meat to humans and the government must shut this industry down immediately,” concluded Atamanenko.

Daphne, as Suzanne stated so eloquently, all drugs do not have withdrawal periods. Banned means banned. The medical professionals, not equine scientists, have determined that the impact of the drugs on humans are serious enough to ban the substance. Equine scientists do not determine protocol for human health. That is up to medical doctors. Case in point, Wallis’ statement that they will use a blood test to test horses. A blood test is NOT the proper test to detect bute residues. You MUST assay the kidneys. Bute leaves the blood stream and takes up in injured tissue. The proper test is very expensive and since an animal that has received one dose of bute cannot be sent to slaughter, why would you expect slaughter plants to run expensive tests for a substance that should not have been administered to any animal sent to slaughter? The EU plants do not test for bute so of course, Wallis can say bute was never detected. The USDA did run a pilot test in 2004-2005 that did the proper test for bute and did detect bute in a significant amount of horses. They went back to the standard test and just kept sending meat that did not meet food safety guidelines of the importing countries.

Wallis’ statement that banned drugs have never been found in horses is a flat out lie. The recent EU FVO reports indeed did detect banned substances in US horses in both Mexico and Canada along with falsified paperwork stating the horses were drug free. That’s not their fault, it is the US’ fault. That is something we control now. Have you asked Wallis why she hasn’t shared the reports with you? Are you not aware of the Mexican soccer team that tested positive for Clenbuterol? It was traced to tainted meat and is one of the banned drugs that were found in US horses in the EU FVO report. Why don’t you ask Wallis why she hasn’t shared the reports with her minions and continues to give you old information and reports that don’t pertain to horses?

Wallis’ statement that a horse has never been mistreated in a slaughter plant is another flat out lie. There are numerous FOIAs that are available that list all the humane violations in the US plants. While Wallis continues to say they are fake, the CHDC reports at the plants in Canada were authenticated by the Canadian government. A new investigation was released this week at another plant in Canada. This one uses the captive bolt and is exactly what was happening in the US plants.

Slaughter proponents that complain of the long hauls need to take another look because the violations don’t have anything to do with Canada and Mexico. There have always been and always will be exports to Canada and Mexico – with or without US plants. You need to view the transport violations documented in FOIAs. To this day, every documented violation occurred within US borders and were committed by people in the US. We control that, not Canada and Mexico.

So you can continue to listen to Wallis’ lies or you can independently do some research and view what is right in front of you.

Amy shoot I could not find your post to reply I hope you get this, if my statements said in anyway that there where not some breeders who where the kick ass bomb most wonderful horse people in the world, I am sorry, I have the utmost respect for the breeders who cut back, who said wow market no good lets work on finding good quality lines instead of quanity, again, if my post implied that there where not some good ones out there, I am sorry, those who have cut back deserve a medal of honor, and a thank you, please except my sincere apologies for making it seem that way.

Can all you people how have “no way to dispose of a horse” tell me what you would do if your horse broke a leg? Tell me what your neighbor rancher does when a cow dies. Animals die all the time. Slaughter is not the only way to dispose of a large animal.

Second point: Slaughter is FOOD PRODUCTION. Food production is not where we get rid of our rotten produce, or our skinny, sickly, old animals. Sure there are culls in the meat industry, but those breeding animals are kept under food animal protocols until they are culled. Horses are not raised as food.

As a nation we don’t eat horse meat. The nations that do have a right to tell us what standards need to be followed if we are to provide them horse meat. None of our horses meet the protocols that the EU is using now. By July 2013 faking it is over and we have to have a system in place that is equal to the EU system or we don’t get to supply them horse meat.

Daphne you can cry all you want that buted horses are safe, but you will never change the mind of the officials that count. Time to move up to the 21st century and start living in line with the new global food safety concerns if you want to sell food.

Why is it all of us anti horse slaughter people know about these regulations but the horse killers keep going ahead with plans to open a slaughter house? Who is going to tell the horse killers and their investors that there is no market for the horses they how say they want to kill? Anyone?? Anyone?? Oh that’s right, we have been saying that all along but they haven’t listened and they still waste the time of our greedy politicians with this stuff. Its time to wake up people! Let Congress get back to work on the real problem of jobs and the debt.

i seen that a so called rescue WHO TOLD THE ENTIRE WORLD i bute my horses if they need it or not is one here. CHICKEN shit can’t even take the afcts sprung at her. Blocked me, my hubby, and lots of others because they told her that bute can RUIN her senior life. BUT go right ahead beverly keep giving those seniors bute even if they don’t need it, BUT don’t come crying when they die of colic because you didn’t see the signs because they were covered up with bute in their systems.

oh and one more thing, I FOLLOW NO ONE> not sue wallis, NO ONE i do MY own research and find things out.

Daphne, you just go right ahead and bleive what you want, and I have a bridge you can buy as well, and I dont care what you think, the EU says no if your horse has had a single does every in its lifetime you cannot and will not import it to our country, if you try to do so it is a vilation of internaiton trade laws and a crime, and so yur FDA does not get the rgith to trump another countries policy. If you lie, and say your horse has not had bute and it has, you will be charged for breaking internatinal laws, in 2013 all horses or carcass that may be shipped to the EU for consuptions will have to have a certified passport, no exceptions period, and again, who the hell do you think you are telling another country what you are going to do and not do with products you ship to their country, they set their rules, their rules are bute it is banned from the food chain, they do not care what your group wants to test for, so all you have said is and I will relay that to them is your group is going to lie about the horses who have had bute. IT is a yes no question, “Since this equines birth has it had bute” long word, it is yes or no, not withdraw not 6 months, it is yes not, and they do not care wht you want to say is a withdraw time they say no period no, and again I emailed them with your groups name, all of them, and all names within that are listed. They do not test they dont bother, it is a again has had bute has not had, has had remove from food chain.

I don’t belive ANYTHING without the research and my research from talking directly with the FDA, says they have NEVER tested the meat in horses, the only reason why bute was banned was because of it MAY(big word) MAY cause AA in children. They admitted they WILL be testing the MEAT, not the blood, not the kidneys, BUT the meat for bute. and we are talking about HORSES IN THE USA not overseas.

Americans dont buy horse meat, there is no market, and the USDA will not let you give a horse bute and then sell it for human consumptions, none of your horse meat will go over seas, that is your market. And I am sure that the USDA as a matter of fact positive, they will not let you market horse meat that has been at any point in time had bute. I will get you a statement from them as well saying you are not going to sell horse as a meal that has ever had bute.

I have called and left a message with the USDA who unless you dont get it is who will get to make the call on if your horse gets served up for dinner here in the US, with all of the districts, spoken to some and waiting on the rest, but so far so sorry, even here in good old USA you wont be able to slaughter for cosumption by man or animal any horse that has had bute. FDA does not regulate this, “USDA” does. Will post their official response as soon as I get the rest of them, wanted to make sure I called them all. All distircts, covering all states.

Daphne, you just don’t get it, do you? If an animal has had a banned substance, the animal cannot enter the food chain. You guarantee this by having a traceability system like passports (something all of you oppose) on the front end. Food safety rules are in place to ensure the animals GOING to slaughter are eligible. You don’t test their eligibility on the back end. If you want to slaughter horses for food then you need a national passport system. That means more government regulation, more wasted tax dollars and more burdensome costs to horse owners so the owners of less than 2% of the horse population can continue to be irresponsible and not held accountable.

With the vast majority of horse owners against slaughter, good luck getting horse owners to buy into a passport system. Either play by the rules or get out of the business. You are giving a black eye to our food producers.

Your question about if we are going to give bute to a horse who does not need it have been asked and answered, please do not ask again and be rude to this comment section what ever your name is I thnk Ms. Watson, as far as your research, unless your work is for a federal govenment agency who has the ability to make rules and enforce them it counts for squat, as it is incorrect, spwell of lies, however since you all seem to want to push the issue, a very detailed letter about your claims has been sent to the USDA for comment, as well as a similar version to the EU and the UK, with screen shots of your total lack of respect for their laws, Ameicans dont eat horse meat, so your only market is over seas, therfore you get to follow their rules, you dont get to make rules for another country. So if you will kindly direct any issue with the bute board to me as I started it, I will deal with you, not the people who choose to avoid your insane and never very nice tongue, so as my grandpa use to say, stick that in your pipe and smoke it.

Marie, Vicki, LynnIL, Diane,
A couple more questions(because this is so confusing to me). What are all of the excited backyard breeders, kill buyers, pro slaughter Wallis following Zombies going to do when the international companies realize that they cannot be trusted and never should have been to begin with. Just how many times do you suppose they will listen to Daphne’s excuse that (and this IS a direct quote) “I am waiting for a responce from the fda vet ppl to give me reports” or “oh and one more thing, I FOLLOW NO ONE> not sue wallis, NO ONE i do MY own research and find things out” ?? How many chances do you think they will take on American horse meat. Obviously they cannot trust the American horse meat industry already, as the leader of them is encouraging lies. As if you just don’t mention bute they won’t ask?? My gosh. They are feeding people this meat and to blatantly lie about what drugs you’ve givin it just to make a few bucks shows just how selfish and ignorant you really are, Daphne. Rules are rules. You guys cry because you felt we were trying to tell you what you could and could not do with your personal property. Well, now someone is. And that someone is about as likely to bow down to you as we are. NOT HAPPENING. NEWSFLASH: THE BRAINS OF DAPHNE WILL NEVER OUT PLAY THE GOVERNMENT WHEN IT COMES TO FOOD SAFETY. And BTW, this comment:

“ha ha ha the plants here were worse then MEXICO, do you EVEN know what they do down there. Here let me tell you, They run a horse in a chute, take a knife and STAB IT OVER AND OVER AND OVEr again in the spin, on the neck. the horse is then down BUT BY NO MEANS DEAD. they can feel EVERYTHING, just not move. They are killed by having their throats SLIT WHILE STILL ALIVE> at least here in the states they were rendered BRAIN DEAD. they could NOT FEEL, WERE BRAIN DEAD. that means DEAD. I can’t belive you would think that the states plants were as bad as mexico.

AND yes it can be regulated and humane. temple grandin has a deisgn in place and so far it has worked very well. NOT sure which plant in CA it is but reports have shown it is very well regulated and has proven to be humane for the horses.

what part of this do you NOT all understand. The PRO side doesn’t want slaughter houses to be a dumping ground, slaughter set the bottom price for the horse market. FACE it . it did. I asked on Fb and I will ask on here. Since the pro side has an idea what will happen IF the borders are shut down, what they HELL is your side gonna do with 100,000 horses that will have no where to go. YOU really think that we are gonna step up. OH WAIT thats right all those rescuse out there will take them. FUNNY that THEY ARE SO FULL NOW you really think they will take them.. SO your side BETTER MAN up and do the right thing. THINK about what your side will have caused.”

is by far one of THE dumbest things I have ever heard an adult say in my entire flipping life. Marie, screenshot?? That would be a good one. Daphne laughing about the level of cruelty inflicted on the horses sent to Mexico.

And Daphne, if the borders would close down, there would be over 70% of the U.S. population that would come together as one and help place these horses. It does not take a rescue spot opening up to provide a loving and safe home to these horses. And guess what, Daphne. I am not a rescue organization. I get no funding. I get NO financial assistance. But I would be right there with them and I would absolutely offer to take a couple of the so called “unwanted” horses. And you better believe that I would NEVER turn my back on any horse….I’d be there with a trailer to haul away all of your “fugly”, “inbred”, “parrot-mouthed”, “sway backed”, “U-necked”, “crooked legged” or just plain old and worn out horses home with me where I would find them homes that would love them despite their appearances. Who cares?? That just goes to show ONCE AGAIN that whatever you lack in compassion, you make up for in smugness and arrogance. You are the last person, and I mean LAST person that I will ever take advice from on any topic.
And lastly, you attacked that person you keep referring to, when you knew darn good and well that she had just put down a horse she loved very much. This was a horse that she cared deeply for and made a tough decision. That is what happens when we “AR” people rescue animals. We form a bond with them and it hurts us to see them experience any pain what so ever. That, in my opinion, is a quality not a flaw. My advice to you…don’t dish out what you yourself cannot handle. Do your research. And quit blubbering on and on like a stammering fool. Shut the lying pie hole of yours and stick to improving your poor deer hunting skills. You have ZERO respect for anyone and if you continue to behave in that manner, you will get it returned to you TIMES 10. No joke. I know you had a heart at one time. Where it went, I have no idea. But there is plenty about you that we could all point and laugh and joke about your painful memories…if you would like! Up until this point, I have been too tackful to do so. But you rubbing it in about her claiming to have given bute is getting old. SHE just said that out of hurt and anger. It is not true. I would not, however, blame her if she did when threatened by the likes of your kind. Grow up. Take some time to read what people are saying here and you would sound like a lot less of an idiot. Try it.

FACT when the FDA who is in charge of making the drug rules, STATE they only banned it because of HUMAN use, that is has NEVER been found in HORSE MEAT , you would think something needs to change. maybe NEW TESTS.
and I can give you over 1000 DIFFERENT AMERICANS that DO and have ate horse meat. I know of 2 families that RAISE a horse just to fill their freezer every yr, so to say americans DON”T eat horse meat is another one of your LIES. and me RUDE on thsi comment page, SINCE when DO YOU OWN the farm and dairy page?

Daphne, do you just make up stuff as you go along? They don’t test for bute so of course, it isn’t found. You don’t test meat, you test the horse. Even the standard tests they use that would never detect bute doesn’t test meat. They test muscle and fat. So once again, you don’t know what you’re talking about. And again, there is enough evidence for MEDICAL doctors that it is not safe for humans to ingest. Banned means banned. Bute is only one of several banned substances. No withdrawal and no slaughter. EVER.

Sorry, but two families or the 1,000 different Americans (do you really know that many people or is that more hearsay from Wallis?) or 10,000 is not a market. It is a very small insignificant percentage of the population. If there was money to be made, it would have been sold here years ago. Americans don’t eat their horses, dogs and cats. Let the countries that eat horse meat slaughter their own horses. Our horses represent a minute percentage of their consumption and won’t be missed at all. We don’t raise them as food animals and they should be humanely euthanized as we do with all non-food animals. That’s our culture. Respect it.

I talked to a nice lady from Germany today who wants to figure out a way to stop horse slaughter over there. I told her we were working on educating the world as to the fact that American horses don’t have a passport recording all their medications from birth. She had no idea, she said everyone in EU assumes that American standards are at least as good as their own. The see America as a leader in food safety. They have always trusted the products we supply….

The word is getting out. It is possible the demand for American horse meat will drop to zero even before July 2013 when the final EU rule goes into effect and our horses can no longer get into the EU food chain with fake records.

Daphne, no one cares if you think buted meat is safe. The horse meat marketplace wants meat that can be proved to have never had a dose of bute in the animals life. If you can’t prove that you don’t have a product to sell. But your property rights are preserved. You can offer it for sale. Just don’t expect to get a buyer once the final rule goes into effect.

I can’t believe ANY of you people have time to have lives. Scrolling down through the comments from Sept 15 to Dec. 8 there are hardly any times longer than 4 hours without comment. I see maybe 15 or 20 different people and mostly the same 5 or 6. You’re fighting among yourselves with no NEW ideas or solutions. I work in horses all the time. I consider slaughter a necessary evil. You can’t legislate good parenting skills why in heaven’s name would ANY of you think the government could legislate good animal husbandry?
Maybe we should get an already drowning in red ink government to build bigger animal shelters, train more personel to staff them, then find out where to bury all the bodies. Close both borders entirely to horse transport. How far will that fly??
All that will still not make serious horsemen look twice at the conformational challenged untalented “rescue” foals. Daphne can sell $15,000 horses in a depressed market because true horsemen and women, know what they want, what they want to use it for, how to produce it, and how much it means to them. No matter what laws are put on the books, no matter how many insults are thrown at them this will NEVER change. Grow up, deal with it, and move on. The real problem caused by all the fighting, name calling, and “fact” producing that’s become a cottage indusrty over the past 10 years for of the four most prolific posters is this….. A good horse will still sell (I know, like Daphne, I sell them). The same horses that were considered good horses before you started the bus are the same horses conisdered good horses today. They are still selling, in my little corner of the world they are getting higher priced and harder to come by, for lots of reasons. The marginal horses we were told would be “loved and cherished” are producing now. The first generation of foals from the rescued, saved, and adopted are coming into the mix. Congratulations and enjoy.

@Amy – slaughter is never humane; you do not know what you are writing about. Captive bolt is too often misplaced and doesn’t knock the horse out with one shot. Read the recent series (forbes.com) that shoots that fallacy of humane slaughter down with facts and an interview with slaughter guru T. Grandin. Captive bolt not humane because it too often does not work. Plus, horses know they are going to be slaughtered (fight or flight animals) so that is not humane, either. Third, the horses in Mex are stabbed in the spine, not the neck. Presently the only humane ways to kill a horse humanely are with professionally administered euthanasia via injection or one well-placed bullet to the horses’ brain (that the horse is obviously not expecting). You can’t do either humanely on a slaughter assembly line because the horses sense what is happening and are rightfully terrified. Please get your facts straight before posting. Lives depend upon the truth, and this is serious business. Thank you.

http://www.horseprotection.it/docs/phenylbutazone.pdf

Daphne, bute is BANNED. There is not withdrawal period and there never will be. The meds that are banned in food animals have NO ACCEPTABLE WITHDRAWAL period. Banned means banned. One dose and the animal can NEVER enter the food chain. Bute is BANNED in all food producing animals, not just horses.

And you might want to tell your buddies over at Comedy Central that just because inspections have been reinstated that you’ll not see any withdrawal periods on the labels anytime soon. You guys are a hoot. Do you not realize that in order to establish withdrawal periods you need hundreds of thousands of dollars to do the extensive testing and studies over a period of time? Don’t you guys ever do any research? And don’t be asking Wallis’ community college “equine” scientists. You need medical doctors that have the education and skills to determine what is safe for humans to consume. It is mind boggling the lack of understanding you guys have.

what part of the FDA TOLD ME theirselves that they have NEVER TESTED FOR BUTE, and IF the status from companion animals change to livestock IT WILL BE TESTED, if they do not find any traceable amounts bute will be taken off the banned list. DIRECTLY from THEIR MOUTHS THEY STATED EVERY DRUG including BUTE has a withdrawl period. EVERY DRUG even BANNED DRUGS. your VET has access to a website directly from the FDA that gives them the withdrawl times for EVERY DRUGS BANNED ONE INCLUDED.
So i guess something that comes DIRECTLY from the place that placed the ban in the first place has no clue what they are talking about. THEY stated to me via an email that ALL DRUGS even the ones that they placed a ban on has a WITHDRAWL PERIOD, they even stated that they have NEVER EVER tested for bute in horse meat so they do not really know if it is still in the horse meat or not. GEESH and you ppl can’t read at all. Don’t belive me ask them

Daphne, you can’t be that dense. The testing has already been done and based on the tests, it was banned in all food producing animals. Why on earth would you spend hundreds of thousands of dollars on a drug that is banned? Your market is the EU and it has already been banned there, as well. Do you know what banned means? It means not allowed under any circumstance. Never. There are no withdrawal periods on banned drugs. Why can’t you comprehend that? That’s like saying if smoking is banned in an establisment, you can light up a cigarette after waiting 30 minutes. Jeez.

You can talk until your blue in the face. The drug is banned. Period. And so is Clenbuterol, Ivermectin and a host of other drugs. They are banned. If you give your horse one dose in his/her lifetime, you cannot have him/her slaughtered for human consumption.

It is comments like yours that have the country wondering what they are doing to our traditional food sources and how safe that meat is. That is the unintended consequence of horse slaughter.

BTW, You don’t even understand what they are telling you. They told you they didn’t test the meat and that is because the FDA does not test meat. Along with the drug companies, they test DRUGS, not meat and the effects of the drugs on humans.

Before you embarass yourself any further, next time you get information have someone explain it to you before you post.

Ooops, I missed a “R” in embarrass. Sorry about that.

You know, I love it when I come back and all my best stuff is already posted, hehe, so Daphne, did you get elected to the EU health board or did they just tell you that we Americans get to dictate foreign policy

http://www.inspection.gc.ca/english/fssa/meavia/man/ch17/annexee.shtml#e5 go read daffy if it lets me post links, and if not it is chapter 17 of the Canadian import you will see bute is a banned one,

We are a Democracy where Majority is suppose to rule. Americans don’t eat horses and the Majority of Americans don’t want horse slaughter for human consumption brought back to the USA. The reasons are many and varied (horse slaughter is inherently inhumane, Bute, cost/taxes – Americans don’t eat Horses, icon of Freedom) , but the bottom line really is that of Majority rule – NOT Money rule; Not personal property rights, which must be balanced with personal property Responsibility. If you own a house and you fail to pay your real estate taxes, there are legal consequences. Owning/operating a car involves legal responsibilities. Animal ownership also involves legal responsibilities as well – and 70-80% of Americans are against horse slaughter. It doesn’t matter if one owns a horse, ever has owned a horse, as it is a moral issue; not one of money, property or heartless disposal of a living creature. The Majority of Americans don’t eat horses, don’t want their tax dollars supporting an industry that the Majority don’t want returned to the USA. The Horse Industry that supports horse slaughter is deliberately turning a blind eye to the cruelties inherent in horse slaughter as an industry and should be ashamed of themselves, promoting “love of horses” on the one hand, and “bloody cruel” disposal of “culled” or so-called “unwanted” horses on the other hand – as Americans we can and must do better.

A good article to the point, people need to start using more common sense like they did years ago instead of being brainwashed animals have always been used for food as long as they’re put down in a humane way it’s better than being starved and mistreated no way in hell can you take care of all these animals and think they’re going to go to some shelter or rescue sanctuary, any more these days people are nuts with all these animal right activist and Peta absolutely crazy the way people think.

Well you better buy a hell of a lot of land and have a big God damn pocket because you’re going to need it when they start sending all these horses to you to feed and care for them luck