Editor:
One might ask why Kasich has given ODNR the right to go on a witch hunt for Ohio animal owners. ODNR can come to your home, search your barns and house because someone says you raise exotic animals.
We are living in a whole new state. Ohio has given animal rights groups the power to look in our homes. Where will it end? Can someone tell me what is next? Can some one tell me when the state had the right to come and take our animals?
The state of Ohio is now taking my income. The state of Ohio has taken my way of life. My grandfather died to free the Jews from Germany. My uncle almost lost his life to keep us free. Now Ohio allows a group of people to take our rights. Is this Russia or Cuba?
Ohio has allowed money from animal rights groups line state leaders pockets to get what they want. Take away a way of life. I voted for a leader who said no outside group will tell him how to run the state. Well, he did. The man I voted for said he would not hurt small business. He is killing my business.
Now ONDR can come search your home just because someone gave your address. I think the leader of Ohioans for Humane Farms has lions — lets check her house. Search her house, look in her closets, check out her dresser drawers.
Look out hunters one of the leaders of the stakeholder meeting is a PETA. She gets her airfare paid for by Ohio taxpayers. She wants horses to not have to pull a buggy down the road. She is not from Ohio but she gets to write Ohio law. I wasn’t allowed to go to the meeting that affects my income but she is. Ohio has let her start writing Ohio law.
Hunting in Ohio is going to be outlawed. She wants no guns. She now is working with ODNR. They think she is a god. You will lose your guns just like I am losing my animals.
She is a PETA lawmaker writing Ohio law so if you think you can’t lose your right to hunt, you are fool like I was. A fool thinking Ohio would never take my way of life, my income. They did. Now Ohio has allowed PETA and HSUS people to write our laws. Will the Amish think their way of life can’t be taken? It will. She will take your buggy horses. Animal rights groups already think all Amish are puppy millers.
Animal rights people have changed the way we farm with the Standards Board. ODNR thinks with PETA’s help they can shut down the exotic animal trade in Ohio, so ODNR jumped on the wagon. Just like the Ohio Farm Bureau did with HSUS. How many people renewed their dues? ODNR wants more power. Greed is killing this state. Greed will kill this Earth.
Butch Hash
Frazeysburg, Ohio
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I can’t think of anyone more owned by “greed” than someone who thinks they have the “right” to an Other’s life!
OWNERSHIP SIMPLY CLAIMS YOU THE RESPOSIBILITY TO THE WELFARE OF THE SAID ANMAL ETC. THESE ARE ANIMALS THAT ARE ALREADY HERE IN AMERICA-THEY ARE NOT BEING SNATCHED FROM THE JUNGLE-BUT W/THEM BEING KILLED OFF CONSTANTLY AND THEIR HOMELAND BEING ATE UP MY MAN-MAYBE THEY SHOULD BE.IT IS OUR RESPONSIBLITY TO HELP CONSERVE THE ANIMALS WE DO HAVE LEFT AND I THINK ANYONE W/THE CAPABILITY AND THE FUNDS TO CARE FOR THEM THE RIGHT WAY-W/O SAFETY BEING AN ISSUE TO THE PUBLIC ITS NOBODYS BUSINESS!!
It is a sad world we are in today when American freedoms can be taken by any one group, much less a vegan animal rights religion coming from California & NYC. Time to stand up and push back.
Perhaps if there was campaign finance reform some of this kind of behavior would fail to take root. All I can tell you is to take the names of those involved with stealing your rights w/legislation and make them pay at election time. They work for you not PETA or HSUS.
I would like all of you to post this to your web pages,let the people all over America know what has happened to our right as animal owners here in Ohio. Butch,iam behind you 100% we all need to take a stand against these people and take our rights back.This is not just about owning an exotic animal it is about so much more!
I FEEL TERRIBLE FOR THESE PPL WHO ARE LOSING THEIR ANIMALS-IS THIS REALLY WHAT AMERICA HAS COME TO? I HAVE A PRIMATE BUT IM STRUGGLING TO GET A CAT THAT IS IN NO WAY ILLEGAL WHERE I LIVE BUT I HAVE BEEN GIVEN QUITE THE RUN AROUND.ONE PERSON ACTUALLY SAID THAT I WAS THE 1ST PERSON TO ADDRESS THIS ISSUE AND BECAUSE OF IT-THEY PLAN TO LOOK INTO CHANGING THE THE STATE/LOCAL RESTRICTIONS ETC!!! I COULDNT BELIEVE MY EARS!! PEOPLE NEED INFORMATION AND FACTS-I HAD ONE OF THE OFFICIALS I WAS DEALING WITH VIEW A VIDEO I FOUND AND I WAS SHOCKED-HE ADMITTED THAT HE WAS NOT AT ALL AWARE OF HOW MUCH HE DID NOT KNOW!!! YOU REALLY SHOULD SEE THE VIDEO-EVEN IF YOU ARE NOT THE OWNER OF A FELINE-IT WOULD APPLY TO EXOTICS OWNERS OF ALL KINDS IN MY OPINION! GO TO FELINE CONSERVATION FEDERATION-HOME PAGE,LOOK TO THE LEFT COLUMN AND CILCK VIDEO/MEDIA AND ITS THE FIRST VIDEO-ITS CALLED “AN IN(CAT)VENIENT TRUTH YOU WILL BE SO AMAZED AND SHOCKED!! IT NEEDS TO BE SHARED W/SOME OF THESE GOVT AND STATE OFFICIALS.I SENT IT TO EVERYONE IVE HAD TO GO THROUGH!!!
We need to get are heads out of the sand and be heard Before it’s to late This bull needs to stop
I am an america, and it is my right to have anything I want. If not, then it is communism. *rolls eyes* No one has the right to own a lion or a tiger, they are wild animals, not livestock or pets!
Maria… Animals are not “things” though — You don’t have the right to “own” living, sentient beings. You may have the legal nod to do so — But not the “right”. And even so, once it was legal to own humans, to make children labor, to beat a wife — Fortunately we’ve evolved from those harmful acts to attempt a more civilized culture. You’re not against progressing our species are you?
DUE TO PEOPLE,THESE ANIMALS NEED FULFILLING PLACES TO LIVE,ROAM AND BE HAPPY-THERE IS NOTHING WRONG W/OWNING ANY NIMAL THAT YOU HAVE THE ABILITY TO CARE FOR IN THE PROPER MANNER.WE OWE THEM THAT MUCH BECAUSE IF NOT FOR US,WE WOULD NOT BE LOSING ALL OUR ANIMALS TO EXTINCTION-NOT TO BE RUDE,BUT EVERYTHING ELSE YOU SAID MADE NO SENSE AND WAS COMPLETELY IRRELEVANT TO THIS SUBJECT.MANY PEOPLE AS PRIVATE OWNERS HAVE A MUCH BETTER ABILITY TO GIVE THESE ANIMALS A HAPPY GOOD LIFE-AS LONG AS THEY ARE SAFE,PEOPLE ARE SAFE AND THEY ARE HAPPY-WHAT IS THE PROBLEM? A HANDFUL OF IGNORANT PEOPLE HAVE CREATED ALL THIS DRAMA.THAT SHT IN OHIO WOULD NEVER OF HAPPENED IF THE BIG SHERIFF HAD DONE THE CORRECT THING AND LET JOE-THE MAN THE ANIMALS WERE SUPPOSED TO GO TO,TAKE THEM.THAT MAN DEDICATES HIS LIFE TO CARING FOR WILD LIFE AND HIS ANIMALS ARE HAPPY!! YOU ARE WRONG,IM SORRY….
all these animals were put on this earth for us to love…for millions or more yrs. all these animals have been kept as pets and if anyone should be given that right today i would think it would be a damn american!!! we (people all over the world) have destroyed their homes and their land-even still trap and kill them for getting on what is now our/their property! these zoos and other similar organizations-the only ones w/any rights are a COMPLETE FAILURE IN THEIR ATTEMPTS AT SO-CALLED BREEDING PROGRAMS BECAUSE THEY CANNOT KEEP THE ANIMALS THEY CURRENTLY HAVE HAPPY AND FULFILLED.THE MAIN PEOPLE KEEPING SOME BREEDS FROM BECOMING ENDANGERED OR EXTINCT ARE PRIVATE OWNERS…WHY? SIMPLE,THEIR ANIMALS ARE PROPERLY CARED FOR,STIMULATED AND LOVED!! THEY ARE NOT OUT TO MAKE A BUCK-THEIR MONEY GOES STRICTLY TO THE CARE OF THEIR ANIMALS NOT TO MAKE IT FAMILY FUN DAY AT THE ZOO-SELLING BS AND ADDING ANYTHING THEY CAN COME UP WITH TO AMUSE PEOPLE!!! HOW MANY TIMES HAVE YOU BEEN TO THE ZOO AND REALLY LEFT THERE FEELING LIKE THOSE ANIMALS ARE HAPPY? THE LAST TRIP I MADE TO THE ZOO I COMMITTED TO NEVER GO BACK.THEY HAD ONE LONELY TIGER THAT HAD PACED A DITCH IN FRONT OF HIS ENCLOSURE AND ALL HE DID WAS WALK BACK AND FORTH AGAINST THE FENCE-THAT SOUNDS LIKE A REAL FULFILLING LIFE-IT WAS SICKENING!!
Hum… For all the lobbyists that everyone is claiming are running the show – Sure are an awful lot of politicians campaigning in Ohio and Iowa!
SOUNDS LIKE YOU ARE A TRUE EXPERT ON ALL THIS!
Doesn’t Farm and Dairy do any fact-checking before printing these letters? Opinions are one thing, but outright lies are quite another. PETA isn’t even on the ODNR workgroup, for example.
One Link to shut a big mouth http://petavanguardsociety.com/staff-dir.asp
Holly – The HSUS rep took a leave of absense so she could have a child, you know, be the “Guardian” of it because it’s not her’s to “own”, no one can “own” a another sentient being. The person selected by HSUS to stand in for HSUS is employed by PETA and paid by HSUS for her time on the board. So in a round about way, PETA and HSUS both had representatives on the board to drive animal owners out of Ohio.
Actually, PETA is on the workgroups. It is there in the form of the HSUS. The HSUS hires from PETA and from the Animal Liberation Front.
This is about loosing our rights …the rights all our forefathers and countrymen fought and died for……and now they want everything we love …..I dont live in Ohio but we are all going to face this and we need to find a way to be ready…we need to stand up and be heard….and Not be afraid to stand up and speak……all our animals need us…NOW …more than EVER
if anyone thinks this is just about,lions,tigers and bares,you are so wrong.
When we, as voters, passed the bill that set up the livestock care standards, MANY of us voted for it only because we saw it as the lesser of two evils. Our governor, as well, is not keeping any of the ‘promises’ he made, either while campaigning, or in his inaugural speech- I can easily see that whenever more cuts for medicaid come across the desk of the county board that I am appointed to. I Live in a neighborhood where at least 10% of the houses are vacant or in foreclosure.People can barely afford to eat, yet we are not permitted to grow/raise our own food. The statecan recover if people are permitted to create their own economies- and that includes raising animals- And if an animal’s welfare is at stake, someone who understands that old horses are thin and that dairy cattle have hip bones that show, should be the person to determine if the animal is being underfed/neglected– not some PETA/HSUS person who wants everyone to eat a diet our digestive systems says we are not totally suited for. Last biology and physiology classes I took indicated humans were omnivores–not herbivores. And, I USe a Service Dog– who is going to tell me my dog, who LOVES to work, Should not be permitted to work? After all, unhappy, frustrated pets are what wind up in the shelters!!
TERRY-YOU ARE SO RIGHT!!!
Since i am an ohio reins volunteer I get an invite to attend the care standards meeting, I will be at the next one, and will bring forth some of my feeling about all this.
Go to ONDR’s web site Check out the meeting reports Then Google Debbie Leahy Looke She LOOKS LIKE PETA TO ME http://petavanguardsociety.com/Dleahy.asp
@Terry… “Last biology and physiology classes I took indicated humans were omnivores–not herbivores.” Yes, we *can* consume flesh… But there is absolutely no “necessity” to do so. Our bodies are much more suited to thrive on a plant based diet: Dr. Milton Mills – The Comparative Anatomy of Eating
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rFROlwe-m3Y&feature=player_embedded
And in reality… No one today should reasonably fear that their “pet” will be taken away tomorrow if they choose not to eat an animal today.
Strange, I recall reading the transcript from a radio talk show in Washington State that Mr. Pacelle was on where he made a direct reference that the Bill of Rights should extend to Animals. So Bea, if animals have the same rights according to the “Bill of Rights” then that would make animals = humans and you have consistently stated that no one has “the right to “own” living, sentient beings.”
Are you backtracking now Bea? Pets are not sentient beings that can be owned, you refer to “your” dog as in you own it.
@Bea== Meat is a ‘complete protein’. I NEED to eat animal based proteins to stay within my health AND food budgets. So you would deny me the right to raise meat for myself? we ‘can’ eat bees, and ants, as well– should we? Not if we choose not to. I do not force a meat based diet on my vegan friends, and they do not force a vegan diet upon me. I make gluten free choices available to my friends that need that, and I also keep artificial sweeteners *gag* in my home for those that prefer not to use cane sugar or honey.
And I am not worried about my ‘pets’ being taken away– I am concerned that my PREFERRED LIFESTYLE, and even YOUR CHOICES will be taken away.
You know… I really do appreciate this concept of “choice” – Red car instead of blue, Colonial home instead of a split level, decisions to marry or not – parent or not… That sort of thing is great. None require victims. The “choices” have no innocent 3rd parties.
That certainly isn’t the case for the “choice” to kill animals for a “food” that has alternatives.
Most learned dieticians confirm that a plant based diet is suitable for all people of all ages. It is a rare, rare exception that someone becomes ill on a well planned diet of vegetation. It’s a misconception if you think vegans *must* include gluten in their meals to be healthy… I have a close friend whose vegan for 20 years – and gluten-free.
Finally, I don’t get how you say you are raising “meat” for your consumption — These are living beings being bred and raised and slaughtered… You can’t raise “meat” as it’s dead.
raise meat. you know BEEF , hogs normall ppl call them MEAT. I raise MEAT cows, I raise meat hogs, it all means the same thing. ANd last I looked if you are a vegan or a TRUE vegatrain you have to take some kind of supplement. have any of you who DON”T eat meat every have your iron checked?
I do NOT push my meat eating beliefs on anyone, BUT get sick of ppl telling me that I should NOT eat meat at all. kinda like what the hsus and peta does.
“It is the position of the American Dietetic Association that appropriately planned vegetarian diets, including total vegetarian or vegan diets, are healthful, nutritionally adequate, and may provide health benefits in the prevention and treatment of certain diseases. Well-planned vegetarian diets are appropriate for individuals during all stages of the life cycle, including pregnancy, lactation, infancy, childhood, and adolescence, and for athletes. A vegetarian diet is defined as one that does not include meat (including fowl) or seafood, or products containing those foods. This article reviews the current data related to key nutrients for vegetarians including protein, n-3 fatty acids, iron, zinc, iodine, calcium, and vitamins D and B-12. A vegetarian diet can meet current recommendations for all of these nutrients.” http://www.eatright.org/about/content.aspx?id=8357
No problem with iron either:
“Conclusions
Vegans have a high dietary iron intake and although iron from plant sources is less well absorbed than that from meat, high levels of vitamin C in the diet enhances iron absorption. Studies show that the iron status of vegans is usually normal, and iron deficiency is no more common than in the general population.”
http://www.vegansociety.com/lifestyle/nutrition/iron.aspx
Actually, I took more supplements when I ate meat/eggs and dairy – Now, it’s just B12. My neighbors who eat meat regularly take shots every other month… So I don’t think your generalities apply here either.
Lastly, I sincerely am a “normal” person… It’s just that I’ve extended my circle of compassion a bit broader than some who’ve been indoctrinated into seeing other animals simply as commodities — I see the being and choose to respect that life – For I can certainly thrive without harming him or her. And if we don’t have to hurt others – Then why should we?
“It’s a misconception if you think vegans *must* include gluten in their meals to be healthy… I have a close friend whose vegan for 20 years – and gluten-free.”
Now, I never said that vegans needed gluten in their diets– but you just indicated I did say that. Why is it you can have dietary choices, but us ‘meat eaters’ cannot?
Oh– I do feed my dogs concentrated plant proteins– it is called ‘meat’– Should I turn my dog into a vegan? Better yet, are you going to convince obligate carnivores, like Polar Bears and cats, that vegan is the only ethical way to eat? And look at the NATURAL order of life– if you were a cow, would you rather be raised in an open field, with protection from weather and predators available, feed brought to you when grazing was scarce, then die quickly by way of a captive bolt gun, or would you prefer to have a pack of coyotes tear open your haunches as you run in fright, and start eating you before you draw your last breath or even lose consciousness? Your very first comment in here indicated you are the type of person who would write an article about sunrises without even acknowledging that there are sunsets, as well.
And as an Environmental Science Major, a Wildlife Rehabber, AND as a small farmer, perhaps my view may just be a bit more balanced than yours. After all, when I read “Agenda 21” I SAW the flaws in it!!!
Terry, you implicated that meat would be your only source of nutrition as gluten was an issue.
Your dogs? Mine – one at 50 pounds the other at 85 are both vegan. My vet is very happy with their health and energy levels. Goes to show how very wrong we are about the “necessity” to put bolt guns to cow’s heads.
Now, if I were a cow? I’d rather not be artificially inseminiated in order to be killed at a fraction of my life for a totally needless purpose. If I were born by natural means (not hardly these days) – But I’d like to live a full life without human manipulation. And predators? Well they consume deer don’t they? And we still have deer/elk “overpopulation” that permits (encourages) human predators to hunt them too…
I really wish you folks would make up your minds – Do we have too many (nonhuman) predators and that’s why we need to kill coyotes and wolves… OR are their too many deer/elk and that’s why we must kill them… No. My hunch is it’s the cows and sheep we’re most after.
And the reason I would not tell a wolf or lion or bear that he was unethical is because he has no choice as to what his food should be. He can’t live on plant life – Let alone walk into any superstore to obtain it. We humans are the “evolved” “thinking” species… We can understand the preciousness of life — Therefore we ought not to cause deliberate harm if it can be avoided. That’s only “nice”. Everyone was taught to be “nice” weren’t we?
so you still need to take something right. then your diet is NOT giving you what you need. IF you have to take some sort OF SUPPLEMENT YOUR DIET IS NOT Working.
daphne – Put it this way… I can take one b12 a day or be responsible for ending approx. 95 innocent lives a year. Seems like the compassionate and responsible choice is obvious.
Oh — And the b12 issue? If we didn’t have to be so fastidious with washing CAFOs e-coli infested manure from our vegetables – It would not be a concern at all!
you do understand that cattle were placed here for us TO EAT not to look pretty in the field don’t ya.
daphne – Placed here by WHOM??? You do realize that what you’re saying used to be said about people of color… That they were here “for us”. Or that women where here “for men”. Each life lives for itself… No one owns another being. You may have the legal right to take whatever you wish from them… But it doesn’t mean it’s ethical. After all, slavery was once legal… And wives could be beaten… And children married off or put to hard labor. Doesn’t mean any of it was “manifest destiny” or the right thing to do.
Lack of meat based protein adversely affects the brain. Humans are superior to animals. While we have dominium over the animals we are required to treat them with kindness for our own sake. Animals live in the moment. They don’t fear death. You can’t grow enough grain for everyone to be vegan. Cattle can utilize grasses that we can’t utilize on land that can’t produce crops. There are too many predators. They have decimated the elk herds to the point they may not be able to recover. They are killing livestock and dogs in horrific ways and harming the population. If I was king I’d exterminate the lot of them. Veganism is a religion. You are welcome to have your religion but you are not welcome to force your religion on me or mine.
Please maggie – Cite your source. “Humans are superior” — But of course that’s all the more reason to feed ourselves without causing harm to others.
“Dominion” is NOT the same as domination.
Animals don’t fear death. You’re serious???
“Anyone who says that life matters less to animals than it does to us has not held in his hands an animal fighting for its life. The whole of the being of the animal is thrown into that fight, without reserve.” (Elizabeth Costello, in J. M. Coetzee’s book The Lives of Animals)
“Too many predators.” Again, cite your sources… I agree however that there are too many human predators. ;)
Veganism is a belief system… Which technically I guess is a religion – But not one based in Grey-beard guy-“gOd” in the sky… But rather knowledge based in reason and justice. All life wishes to live – equally. All life suffers – the same. If one can live with causing less harm – Why wouldn’t they?
Finally, conversation or discussing ideology is NOT “force”.
bea you do understand that animals do NOT fear death. They do NOT understand what death is. If they are being chased by say a wolf, its not fear, its flight. ALL animals have 2 things. FIGHT or FLIGHT. they do NOT understand death, they may fear the smell of blood or spook at it, BUT they do not understand what is happening to them. My stud broke his neck 3 weeks ago. The only thing he understood is fustration because he could NOT stand up. He did NOT fear death, HE almost welcomed it. He closed his eyes as my hubby pulled the trigger.
daphne – Flight is a response to fear. All beings panic if they think they may be harmed. It doesn’t matter if they know or don’t why they are afraid – They still are!
Just wondering… You do agree we all feel pain equally right? Your stud – Was in agony and almost welcomed relief. But these 57 billion beings bred world-wide for our consumption are not in aging pain… They are not diseased, ill or cripple. They are quite fit for life – So there is no suffering to alleviate. BUT there is certainly a degree of fear and pain to be caused. I say it’s UNNECESSARY. Therefore, never kind. Never compassionate. And never “humane”.
“Humane” is to kill someone to end their suffering – In what way does that apply to deliberately breeding and killing innocent, healthy life that is desperate to continue?
The myth of the ethical vegan http://pjmedia.com/blog/the-myth-of-the-ethical-vegan/
Crying Wolf http://cryingwolfmovie.com/
bea- having seen 90% of the cattle population in the US. They are NOT AI’d. you have over 400 head of cows that would take you over 3 weeks to ai them all. please if you are gonna talk about cattle then get your facts correct. The ONLY cattle that are AI’d are those that are being shown or have a high dollar price on them, like rodeo stock. NOW most of those cows are indeed AI’d because of the BULL/ I have 3 cattle operations close to me that have over 400 head each. guess what they turn out 3 bulls. so far their calf rate is almost at 98% of the cows giving birth.
and there you go again. total needless purpose. PPL NEED to eat meat, that is why the good lord above gave you certain teeth and MADE you what you are. A person who eats both meat and grasses.
You talk about hunting, So i guess its ok for you to just let the deer get sick from wasting disease, or run on the rd? Hunting is a way of life for some. I know many ppl who don’t have to buy beef. They hunt for their food and stock their freezer with deer, elk, etc.
so YOU ARE trying to push us into a vegan life. LET me ask you something. YOu are vegan right? DO you live in a house? wear shoes, drive a car, WALK on concrete, push a shopping cart, carry a plastic cart thing, wear makeup, wear clothes, etc… ONE CAN”T be a true vegan because animal byproducts are USED IN ALMOST 99.9% of the things you use daily.
daphne – The time issue for AI? You do realize that turkeys can no longer mate — They AI most of those 50 million by hand… To make about $5.00 profit on each one… You mean cow-people aren’t concerned with $145 on the hoof for a bit of work? Hum…
“PPL NEED to eat meat, that is why the good lord above gave you certain teeth and MADE you what you are.” Actually, isn’t that a bit pushy on *your religion*? Perhaps my “gOd” doesn’t like the idea of killing anyone… First rule – Do onto others and all that…
Our teeth? You mean these scrawny little cuspids some call “canines”? Can we really chase down prey and rip the flesh from the life with these puny little stubs? Not hardly. Even so — Seems that a progressive culture would want to evolve beyond their dentures. ;) And honestly daphne… Please define what you mean by “need” – because if the word is used correctly I would not be alive – Nor would millions of others who live on a plant based diet. Seriously…
Hunting… We have deer “overpopulation”? Use your favorite search engine – Look up “deer farms” – You’ll find the U.S. has over 1500 of them… Breeding deer. So, either we haven’t enough, therefore we should stop killing them. OR we have too many, therefore we should stop breeding them. You can’t have it both ways without contradicting yourself.
And yes, I realize countless products contain slaughterhouse waste. I know for sure because I spend some time avoiding everything I reasonably can. Everything you name has an alternative – The lipstick, the soap, the leather, plastic, etc. Can I avoid every single bit of it? Not in the world that currently exists in this moment… But given time I have no doubt it is possible and probable.
were are you getting 145 dollars on the hoof? are you talking about meat prices. then lady you are so far off its not even funny. A fat steer one that is ready for slaughter will make the cattle rancher $1.20lb most fat steers weigh about 800-1200lbs. you do the math. So have no clue were you get 145 dollars . Also cattle that are ai’d will have to be ai’d about 3 times. NOT very feasible. and yes your teeth you have are ment for tearing and chewing. But yep we would not be able to do what animals do , thats why the man above gave someone the sense to invent knives. as for hunting so if there is NOT an overpopulation they pray tell me WHY here in ohio that you can take 6 deers apeice in most counties. WHY because there are way to many. AND the deer farms you have found are NOT for turning loose, they are raised for meat, hunting preserves, and show. You do know that they harvest the antlers when they fall off and they have BIG TIME BIG MONEY shows and the BIG thing is they are raised their URINE both does and bucks, so us hunters have scents that are REAL and are not made.
and IF you think that vegan will win and make this country NOT eat meat , you would be living in a world with about 300 vegans and about 8 million or so MEAT EATERS.
Ah… “the man above” – Now that puts things into perspective doesn’t it?
If you think deer are not being bred to restock the hunting supply then you haven’t searched well enough:
http://www.nadefa.org/ Of course they are breeding deer with refined and selective DNA traits to create bigger trophy bucks. You’re naive if you think they aren’t.
Lastly, I’m a bit frustrated at your inability to comprehend human physiology in regards to what we need to live. Please see Dr. Milton Mills Comparative Anatomy of Eating: http://www.sailsarana.com/whocares%20files/anatomy.pdf
It will enlighten you as to what physical traits we have compared to true carnivores. Our entire systems are more suited to eat closest to the “food chain” – Plants that grow first through the Sun.
you never answered my question where are you getting 145 on the hoof? and IF you would have READ what i wrote instead of being like any other AR i have ever ment,(skipping thru the posts and reading only what you want) you have had seen where I said they breed the deer to PLACE THEM on hunter PRESERVES. that means my dear that they are bred, released on PRIVATE FENCED (thousands or hundreds of acres) that are PRIVATE , which means in order to hunt you must PAY a huge amount to hunt there. LADY i have been hunting deer since i was 12 im 36. I know a little bit MORE then you do about hunting and what the deer farms do. YOU also understand that they HARVEST the urine from both buck and doe and sell it to hunters right, you do know that. OH WAIT i forgot how could you.
and again WE do not push our eating habits on you, so why do you think you can do the same to us. IT have been PROVEN that meat makes you smarter. and you are avoiding the question YET again are you an atheist or someone who belives in the lord almighty?
You are the worse type of vegan, those who THINK its ONLY their way or no way. puts animals BEFORE yourself or others, and thinks that everyone should go vegan.
Bea Elliott says:
November 14, 2011 at 8:14 am
Terry, you implicated that meat would be your only source of nutrition as gluten was an issue.
Again– you have not understood a simple statement… gluten is a GRAIN product– NOT a meat product- don’t be putting false statements to my name– To quote a well respected MEAT RABBIT breeder “have a good day”
What I’m trying to say Terry is gluten or no gluten – Eating meat is NOT necessary. Your original statement:
“I NEED to eat animal based proteins to stay within my health AND food budgets.” I disagree and challenge you on that point.
And BTW – What on earth did some poor little bunny do to deserve getting killed over? So sad…
why you ask, because WE LOVE US SOME GOOD BUNNY STEW> again bea, meat eaters dominate vegans. we are PROUD, we are more. Ever wonder why most ppl that are vegans are sick and thin. because they do not have the proteins that your body needs. and oh your b12 will not be used by your body unless you have enough calcuim to help
Sick and thin? Those seem like arbitrary, unsubstantiated opinions. I could reply back that omnivores are fat. But that wouldn’t be the objective truth now either would it? I think you’ll find there are just as many “thin and sickly” UNHEALTHY meat eaters too!
Furthermore – I believe Bill Clinton probably has some of the best health care money can buy… He’s doing fine on a doctor prescribed plant based diet!
Lastly the calcium issue? All cow’s milk is “fortified” due to calcium loss in pasturization — I drink almond milk that has twice as much calcium and a fraction of the fat as cow’s milk. And it is absolutely delicious too! ;)
bea HORSES do NOT fear death. lady I have been around horses my entire 36 yrs of life, I have 2 major degrees in horses, my hubby has a degree in cattle management. Horses DO NOT fear death. the flight response is NOT FEAR, if they can not fight they will run away(FLIGHT).
My stud was NOT in agony he could NOT feel any pain, what he did NOT understand is that his legs didn’t work. HE WAS NOT IN PAIN. animals do feel pain of course they do, BUT THEY DO NOT understand death. They can’t say oh crap im gonna die. THEY DO NOT think that way at all.
and cattle were put on this earth to EAT not look pretty in a pasture. and again NO one really cares if you are vegan, but the more and more you comment, the more and more you make it sound like EVERYONE should be vegan or else.
So daphne… By your logic – I should be able to harvest organs from people who are braindead – Or who have had incapacitating strokes and who are totally unaware of their situation. Even human babies perhaps? They have no concept of death either – Or fear.
“Or else what?” Many here have given the indication that unless we eat meat we will die! I’m just trying to separate the facts from the whim. Truth is we don’t “need” to harm anyone in order to thrive. No one here has proved this otherwise – Again I ask… “put on this earth” by whom???
Folks, Let’s face it– This Bea Elliot person is an ARA person. We could use the AEPA/AETA against her if we knew she was behind certain acts against our way of life. She cannot see that Veganism is a cult, and that NATURE has told us what to eat. She has been brainwashed by those with AR agendas. And as far as Bill Clinton goes– the man couldn’t be morally correct when he was in public office– what makes him so much more ‘superior’ now? Bea probably has not seen the studies that show plants have a measurable physiological response to threats to themselves and to the people who care for them. Perhaps Bea should read “To Serve Mankind” and avoid trying to keep mosquitos from biting her, as well. After all, mosquitos feed off of US.
Terry of course I am for animal rights – As well as justice for humans too. I never kept that a secret for one moment!
If you’re suggesting that speaking my mind on the world-wide-web is an infraction of “law” – By all means – Do whatever you think you must to preserve all our American liberties!
I suggest that “brainwashing” comes from not examining childhood indoctrinations. Surly no one as a kid (or as an adult in many cases) ever consciously chose to eat animals. Really, for a lot of people who have been raised vegetarian at the on-set… The though of eating a corpse or carcass is repugnant. “Brainwashing” makes the disgust disappear in social ritual. See Why We Love Dogs, Eat Pigs, and Wear Cows: An Introduction to Carnism by Dr. Melanie Joy – http://www.carnism.com/ It helps explain our cultural peculiarities and contradictions.
Re Bill Clinton – You’re confusing issues… His bad judgments in office were not encouraged by physicians. His plant based diet today – IS.
Are you Terry, seriously going to grasp at the “plant sentience” straw? Very well. If you truly are concerned about vegetable pain – I still recommend a plant based diet as less plants will be needed to fatten animals. Eat the plants directly so less harm to “plants” will be caused.
But seriously… All that pity for carrots and beets but none for cows or pigs – Don’t you think that’s odd?
And lastly I have no issues with protecting my body from damage or harm. That is self defense… It is provoked and warranted self preservation. Really – quite moral to do. But last I checked these gentle herbivores cause me no threat. Certainly not enough to end their lives over. ~peace~
ok that just sealed it. you are for animal RIGHTS. animals do NOT have rights and should NEVER be placed above a human NEVER. animals have the right to be fed, taken care of. THEY do not have rights. WHEN you speak of animal rights then that means you are in the same boat as peta, hsus, and any other group that thinks all animals should be gone or sit pretty in a pasture.
again you are comparing animals to humans that is what an extremist animal rights person does and it holds NOTHING at all. You can’t compare animals to humans at all.
And are you an aethitis? if not then you should KNOW where animals came from and who placed them here. and if you belive in evolution, then you will recall that the monkey or ape got OH GOSH WAIT FOR IT…. Smarter because they started to eat MEAT.. There is PROOF of that. so let me quote something for you”leviticus 11:3 You may eat any animal that has a split hoof completely divided and that chews the cud.
so i guess it was ok for all the ppl in that time to eat meat. I wonder why there was NEVER any talk about vegans during that time.
At that time… And we’re talking ancient history – That is entirely “written” and interpreted by man – We didn’t know what we know now… We didn’t have the options we do today.
All beings have the right to their own lives… It belongs to them. It can only be stolen by force. Just because you don’t recognize these rights – Doesn’t mean they don’t exist.
Not deliberately killing doesn’t mean you are putting anyone “above” humans. It simply means you respect their right to their own life. We’re not giving them rights to drive, marry or vote — Simply the right to live. And if one leans towards the existence of a deity… Surely that “invisible” and unproveable being would be the soul one to possess “authority” to take life.
It’s interesting daphne that you would bring your “gOd” into the mix. I’m rather pleased that you did as this will be my last comment and I think it’s fitting that the whole debate has been reduced (by you) to following the edicts of some archaic doctrine – And not the good judgment of your sound mind today.
Enjoy your willful blindness as the world attempts to open it’s eyes, minds and hearts.
Radical irrational thought can be a symptom of metal illness induced by a vegan diet deficient in the lack of certain vitamins not easily obtained except by eating meat. It goes with the turf
should have edited before I pushed send
Bea–so you are saying we have no right to kill and eat meat? Is that correct? Then you should do some soul searching, as you being a vegan are consuming more of the plant life that sustains the animals then we are by controlling their population. Basically you are killing animals correct? Farmers harvest the crops that you consume, Many small animals are killed unknown to them when they harvest. So now the farmers are killing the animals for you to live? Correct.
Bea MY FOOD CRAPS ON YOUR FOOD
I think every person in Ohio should look at this http://mofarmerscare.com/media.php
WOW now ODNR has Ban your house cat and your dog I didn’t know they was Wild and Exotic Here is the link look up the names you will see a list Grandma’s Cat And Grandpa’s Dog Are now wild and Exotics Also split hoofed animals Don’t Cows,Sheep, Goats and pigs have split hooves??? Smells like PETA HSUS to me I forgot they wrote the laws for ONDR and the Governor
http://ohiodnr.com/downloads/restricted-species-framework.pdf
i only have one word come nov.2012 VOTE.—— RESEARCH THE PEOPLE YOU VOTE FOR IF THEY HAVE ANY TIES OR SUPPORT ANY I MEAN ANY ANIMAL RIGHTS GROUPS THROW THEM OUT OF OFFICE OR DON’T PUT THEM IN . TAKE BACK OUR COUNTRY AND OUR RIGHTS AS FREE AMERICANS . IN LESS THEN FOUR YEARS WE HAVE LOST MOST OF OUR RIGHTS AND ARE HEADED DOWN THAT ROAD TO SOCIALISUM ,DICTATOR SHIP AND ONE MORNING YOU MAY FIND YOURSELF ON A TRAIN HEADED TO A LAND FILL OR CREMATORY. I RECOMMEND EVERYONE WATCH THE HSITORY OF HITLERS RISE. IT IS A SCRIPT BEING FOLLOWED TO THE LETTER BY THE POWERS TO BE IN THIS COUNTRY.
AMEN!!!
these people who are in animal rights groups do not like animals in fact i would say most are seeking power over others, they are like high school bullies , the problem is elected officals are whooo-d by votes and money. donate to my election and i will support you.and your ajenda.
This is so true and I think this is exactly where we are heading
On the voting aspect—
Do your research!!!I found that one of my senators gets less responsible about environmental issues the further away from ‘home’ that the bill concerned about– yes, he suffers from NIMBY Syndrome. Research every thing your people vote on, and call them on the carpet about it.
And quite frankly, how can we get “None Of The Above” on the ballots? Sheesh! everyone I know that voted for the animal care thing did so as the ‘lesser of two evils’- we had no other option. We knew voting against it would put the AR people in even more control, and a lot faster..
perhaps we need to get this thing repealed and start over
my past experience with this stuff is someone has to take the time to personally talk to as many politicans and LAWYERS that work with them and then you have to get signed pertitions and make copies so you can present them to all that are voting on or sponsoring bills. two things keep or get someone in office VOTES AND MONEY.TAKE one or the other away from them and they are dead in the water. we have a great town lawyer and he has an open door for residents, well we were able to stop a bill at the state level that was going to strip our town 7000 voters strong. of our rights to govern ourselves. a very large city next to us had someone sponsor the bill and no one knew but our lawyer found out and we were able to squash it. now we watch like a hawk. takes a lot of effort but when you are talking your rights it is worth it. this is a fight against animal rights groups and it effect all of us with animals. both farm,pet and exotic, united we can win.
VOTE OUT ANY AR’S START WITH BROWN THEN THE PETA LOVER IN ATHENS OHIO SHE NEED TO MAKE THIS HER LAST TERM KASICK LIED SEE YA IN TWO MORE YEARS BOB GIBS FIND OUT HOW HE STANDS ON ANIMAL RIGHTS I CALLED HIS OFFICE HE SAID WE NEED A BAN SO MAYBE HE NEEDS TO HIT THE ROAD BACK TO ASHLAND STAND WITH THE ANIMAL OWNERS OR GET THE HELL OUT OF THE ROAD
once you find their stand then you have to advertise who is for animals and owners rights. make it simple, these are for bans and these are for animals and owners. be at the polls with simple signs. only advertise the one to vote for. hand out sheets with the names of the ones who are supporting animals and owners rights.there is only one way to get things done, GET RID OF THE GARBAGE. PUT IT AT THE CURB AND BRING IN THE NEW. MAKE SURE THEY KNOW YOU ARE SUPPORTING THEM.
What do we want out of this, anyway? Everyone’s talking about needing regulations and about getting exemptions for USDA licensees, so you tell me what we want out of this. I’m pretty sure I’ve been wasting my time on this and that the group does not want the freedom that Ohio and Oklahoma enjoy.
In other words, what are most owners going to gain?
i have heard nightmares about USDA, i don’t know if it is true or not but depending on your inspector they can write you up, [fine] don’t come back for 3-6mo. to see if you have corrected the problem and then write you up for something else. also their guide lines seem so loose that it is left up to the inspector to decide what the laws are even if not write in the book. so it is interpetation. wow that makes for a mess if true. i think the only thing they should be interested in is health issues, safty issues the rest needs to be someone elses issues.
Folks! ODNR is completely broken! Kasich is on the war path! since you hunters, trappers, and fishermen didn’t vote for him you can kiss your lifestyle goodbye!
You sir, are an alarmist. What we need are reasonable people bringing sane, well-thought out and credible arguments to the debate. The PETA leader wants to ban guns and ODNR thinks she is a god and is working with her! That is funny. I nearly fell out of my chair laughing when I read that. Being very familiar with ODNR, I can assure you they are very gun happy there. ODNR’s leader is a farmer (Jim Zehringer). No one with any credibility is looking to take our guns or domestic animals away. The issue is owning wild animals. Why does anyone think owning a lion, iguana or other exotic is their “right”? These are wild animals and they belong in their native habitat. If you care about them so much, then put your money and efforts into protecting and restoring their native habitats so they can live the lives God intended for them. Stick to owning dogs, cats, horses, livestock and guppies.
we are farmers and raise cattle,goat,sheep we also have exotics. and own guns. with that said i will tell you these people are beyond smart. they are in the cult group mentality and a lot of people fall under their spell , but her are facts. they are out to stop all [farm animals,exotic and house pets] from being confined and privately or commercially owned. they set up an egg comp. cost them a great deal of money in lost business, they have gone after ownership of dogs in calf. and got a law passed that is designed that there will be no dogs in calf. when the ones that are owned now die. start learning how to eat tree bark and grasses becauses animals and their by products are going to be a thing of the past. and as for exotic owners establishing their habitate again. that is a sick joke. this country can not protect the national parks and the native animals [wolves,bear,deer,MUSTANGS etc.] they make laws and then when there is a use for the land the animals are eliminated. FAST. THERE IS A LOT OF DOCUMENTED INFORMATION OUT THERE JUST READ. WE are in a sad state of affairs and private ownership is the only answer because like any private animal owner,,,,,dairyman,chicken hen house, broiler, ground or caged the owner is footing the bill not the goverment and the taxpayers. same for exotics and domestics ,PETA and HSUS and some of the other animal rights groups are attacking from all sides but the final bottom line is NO ANIMAL OWNERSHIP. FREE RUN FREE AND IF THEY CAN’T THEN THEY NEED TO BE EXTINCT. THAT IS THEIR AJENDA AND MOTTO.
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