Reader: HSUS shouldn’t hold ag community hostage

Were you sleeping during economics class?

You actually believe that Purina and Monsanto and Tyson’s and McDonnell’s and Con-Agra and all the other multi-BILLION dollar multinational giants of the food industry will be driven out of town by The Mighty Wayne Pacelle?

‘In 1835, the Humane Society founded the National Federation of Child Rescue agencies to investigate child maltreatment. In the late-1800s, private child protection agencies – modeled after existing animal protection organizations – developed to investigate reports of child maltreatment, present cases in court and advocate for child welfare legislation.[5]

You’re probably right, littleblackdogs, the Big ones will keep going through thick and thin for a long time. It’s ‘us little guys’ that are taking a beating, and with new rules, regs, and such, the family farms and hobby breeders will not flourish. They can’t afford to continue. In PA, slick Eddy has decimated the kennel business as a whole. So instead of eliminating horrific puppy mills, kennels and breeders who have been doing everything correctly can not afford to continue due to the cost associated with new regs. Take a look at the number of kennel operators who have shut their doors this year alone. Too many people believe its their job to mind the private business of others.

How about you quit holding the innocent cows and calves hostage and quit torturing them. Isn’t Ohio calling the kettle black. Yeah, people die on bicycles, but heart disease is the biggest killer and obesity is gaining, thank you in large part to dairy. But all you care about is money. What a sad state.

littleblackdogs,
you’re quoting from a book about something HSUS did 175 YEARS ago? we still had slavery, no rights for women and less for children.
Today’s HSUS isn’t about the betterment of animals we use or possess. It’s an animal RIGHTS organization that spends less than 1% of their annual budget on actually caring for animals. the rest? Lets see… 6 figure salaries, Lobbying for illegal or unconstitutional laws and trying to end animal domestication as we know it. Take a look at some of HSUS’s grand Poobah’s comments.
” one generation and out” ” I have no problem with the extinction of the domesticated dog”
Change that to CHILD and tell me if it’s the same Org.
I would REALLY Love to hear you explain why an international organization feels that they have any right or ability to change a state’s laws.
Do they reside in the state? No
Should they supercede what those living there have to say? ABSOLUTELY not.
Should they be investigated by the IRS for illegally lobbying? Well, I’ll let you do your homework on that one.

As if… As if the HSUS were holding farm and dairy hostage. What a misguided assessment! With their money and power, it’s big farm and dairy who are holding Americans hostage–and making us all sick while they’re at it–not to mention millions and billions of animals, who are kept in the cruelest of systems and then systematically slaughtered. The animals are the true “hostages.”

As for “kennels and breeders who have been doing everything correctly,” they are only adding to the numbers of animals who are killed in shelters because no one will adopt them. Why bring more animals into existence when there are already PLENTY of perfectly lovable and adoptable animals needing good homes?! HSUS is not trying to take away anyone’s pets, nor is their agenda to make the world vegetarian (although that would be a righteous goal). They merely aim to stop animal cruelty wherever it exists. God Bless HSUS!

“Our task must be to free ourselves by widening our circle of compassion to embrace all living creatures and the whole of nature and its beauty.” ~ Albert Einstein

This worn-out canard about the ‘new rules’shafting the small farm is so lame..

The small farm has ALWAYS been at the bottom of the Ag heap. Long before Ingrid Newkirk or Wayne Pacelle or the governor of Pennsylvania were born.
If you do not know this than you are no friend of the small farmer..
And according to my show-breeder friends here in Pa., nobody seems to know of ANY reputable breeder forced out of business since the new laws..
ALL business costs go up…that is the cost of doing business…duh.
If you cannot afford to run your business in a responsible manner, than you either need to downsize or move on..

All you 10th century mad-hatter tea partyers just wanna do what you wanna do…

Well, you can’t.
This is the desire of small children.

What you all are really looking for a ‘free ride’..free from the responsibilities that a nation of laws…a democracy, thanks God,must impose upon it’s citizens in order to avoid anarchy…

Me Me Me…sounds like the sixties all over again..
Stop inciting division amongst your fellow citizens and maybe try to actually DO something for the small farmer..
And stop moaning about this and that..
There always was, and always will be, something to moan about.
Moaning is for teenagers.

In her letter, Cyndi Huntsmen says, “People are killed each day on a bicycle. We do not ban them. People are killed each day on a motorcycle, and we do not ban them.”
People made their own choice to ride on a bicycle or motorcycle and risk being killed. What is her point? Non-humans haven’t made a choice to be abused and slaughtered.
Cyndi goes on to say, “Their goal is to make it impossible for the agricultural community to survive — making us all vegetarians, as they are.”
Why would we want them to be “vegetarian” ?? Vegetarians who are eating eggs and dairy products from factory farms are contributing to the most inhumane living/dying conditions of cows/calves and hens/male-chicks. The ideal nourishment for humans would be vegan in origin. There is no need for animals to be killed for us to live wonderfully healthy lives. Really, we need to stop exploiting animals. Let’s try living with compassion and kindness this century.

7 Things You Didn’t Know About HSUS
(The Humane Society of the United States)

1. The Humane Society of the United States (HSUS) is a “humane society” in name only, since it doesn’t operate a single pet shelter or pet adoption facility anywhere in the United States. HSUS operates sanctuaries for large animals only, not shelters within the commonly accepted definition of shelter. During 2006, HSUS contributed only 4.2 percent of its budget to organizations that operate hands-on dog and cat shelters. In reality, HSUS is a wealthy animal-rights lobbying organization (the largest and richest on earth) that agitates for the same goals as PETA and other radical groups.

2. Beginning on the day of NFL quarterback Michael Vick’s2007 dog fighting indictment, HSUS raised money online with the false promise that it would “care for the dogs seized in the Michael Vick case.” The New York Times later reported that HSUS wasn’t caring for Vick’s dogs at all. And HSUS president Wayne Pacelle told the Times that his group recommended that government officials “put down” (that is, kill) the dogs rather than adopt them out to suitable homes. HSUS later quietly altered its Internet fundraising pitch.

3. HSUS’s senior management includes a former spokesman for the Animal Liberation Front (ALF), a criminal group designated as “terrorists” by the FBI. HSUS president Wayne Pacelle hired John “J.P.” Goodwin in 1997, the same year Goodwin described himself as “spokesperson for the ALF” while he fielded media calls in the wake of an ALF arson attack at a California veal processing plant. In 1997, when asked by reporters for a reaction to an ALF arson fire at a farmer’s feed co-op in Utah (which nearly killed a family sleeping on the premises), Goodwin replied, “We’re ecstatic.” That same year, Goodwin was arrested at a UC Davis protest celebrating the 10-year anniversary of an ALF arson at the university that caused $5 million in damage. And in 1998, Goodwin described himself publicly as a “former member of ALF.”

4.HSUS raised a reported $34 million in the wake of Hurricane Katrina, supposedly to help reunite lost pets with their owners. But comparatively little of that money was spent for its intended purpose. Louisiana’s Attorney General shuttered his 18-month-long investigation into where most of these millions went, shortly after HSUS announced its plan to contribute $600,000 toward the construction of an animal shelter on the grounds of a state prison. Public disclosures of the disposition of the $34 million in Katrina-related donations add up to less than $7 million.

5. After gathering undercover video footage of improper animal handling at a Chino, CA slaughterhouse during November of 2007, HSUS sat on its video evidence for three months, even refusing to share it with the U.S. Department of Agriculture. HSUS’s Dr. Michael Greger testified before Congress that the San Bernardino County (CA) District Attorney’s office asked the group “to hold on to the information while they completed their investigation.” But the District Attorney’s office quickly denied that account, even declaring that HSUS refused to make its undercover spy available to investigators if the USDA were present at those meetings. Ultimately, HSUS chose to release its video footage at a more politically opportune time, as it prepared to launch a livestock-related ballot campaign in California. Meanwhile, meat from the slaughterhouse continued to flow into the U.S. food supply for months.

6. According to a 2008 Los Angeles Times investigation, less than 12 percent of money raised for HSUS by California telemarketers actually ends up in HSUS’s bank account. The rest is kept by professional fundraisers. And if you exclude two campaigns run for HSUS by the “Build-a-Bear Workshop” retail chain, which consisted of the sale of surplus stuffed animals (not really “fundraising”), HSUS’s yield number shrinks to just 3 percent. Sadly, this appears typical. In 2004, HSUS ran a telemarketing campaign in Connecticut with fundraisers who promised to return a minimum of zero percent of the proceeds. The campaign raised over $1.4 million. Not only did absolutely none of that money go to HSUS, but the group paid $175,000 for the telemarketing work.

7. Research shows that HSUS’s heavily promoted U.S. “boycott” of Canadian seafood—announced in 2005 as a protest against Canada’s annual seal hunt—is a phony exercise in media manipulation. A 2006 investigation found that 78 percent of the restaurants and seafood distributors described by HSUS as “boycotters” weren’t participating at all. Nearly two-thirds of them told surveyors they were completely unaware HSUS was using their names in connection with an international boycott campaign. Canada’s federal government is on record about this deception, saying: “Some animal rights groups have been misleading the public for years … it’s no surprise at all that the richest of them would mislead the public with a phony seafood boycott.”

Want evidence? Visit
http://www.humanewatch.com
http://www.AnimalScam.com http://www.ActivistCash.com http://www.consumerfreedom.com
Revised October 2008. Complete sources and documentation available upon request.

Elizabeth,

We have a Humane Society in our city that runs a shelter. There are other ones around here, so I’m not sure what you’re talking about.

What really bothers me about the Humane Society is they don’t extend their compassion to ALL animals, only pets. It blows me away when they have fundraisers for animals where they are serving up other innocent animals that have been tortured and killed on the menu at the fundraiser! So hypocritical!

Unfortunately, Elizabeth, you have been hoodwinked and bamboozled by one of the lowest scammers on Earth, who calls his organization “Center for Consumer Freedom,” in hopes of tricking average Americans into believing it’s something it is NOT. Center for Consumer Freedom is a get-rich quick scheme for someone who “fights efforts to raise the minimum wage, but … drives a Bentley and a Ferrari, and … lives in a $3.4 million mansion in northern Virginia.” It’s all a scam and you’ve been victimized:

“For the past year, the Center for Consumer Freedom, one of Berman’s groups run on a day-to-day basis by David Martosko (who, interestingly, given the attacks on MADD, has a “rap sheet” with a drunk driving conviction and a list of other vehicular violations), has been waging a brand-attack campaign against The HSUS. Berman won’t reveal his donors, but last year he made the rounds to a wide range of corporations involved in animal cruelty and told them The HSUS was the greatest threat to their industries and he’d mount a PR offensive with their money.

Berman has long had ties to the food and beverage and alcohol sectors, so it wasn’t a big leap for him to come with open hand to agribusiness interests upset about The HSUS’s undercover efforts exposing slaughterhouse abuses and our successful campaigns against extreme confinement of animals in small cages on factory farms.

Animal use industries fear The HSUS’s track record of success. There’s just one reason that The HSUS is the target of a Berman campaign: we are strategic and effective in fighting institutionalized animal cruelty in the United States and abroad. So we take his attack as a marker of our success. Still though, we are committed to exposing Berman and his phony campaigns, so that no American is deceived by the likes of a scammer like him.”

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/wayne-pacelle/the-smear-becomes-more-cl_b_617839.html

We were told if we sent our manufacturing abroad and wrote bad loans we’d become rich and famous. We went broke and became the financial laughing stock of the world. Now we’re told if we allow animal radicals to wipe out our pets and farm animals we’ll be happier and have better diets. Isn’t it time to quit listening to political propaganda–while any of us are still alive?

Jill,
Your local Humane society is NOT a part of HSUS. Your local Humane society IS the shelter that IS doing work for the community. Please, NEVER confuse the two.
now on to the HSUS Supporters.
Come on already, we ALL know what’s going on. regardless of what CCF says, the Grand Poobah for HSUS has made some very damning statements that were not taken out of context. so sure, you can try to shoot the messengers (CCF) but the facts still remain the same.
So you want to dispute something, then Where is the 34 Mill that HSUS raised for Katrina?
What about Michael Vick’s Dogs donations? Off in a rescue when HSUS Petitioned the court to kill them all; INCLUDING PUPPIES.
Well, what about the fact that HSUS is under an IRS investigation for violating Charitable org lobbying contributions?
Look, I got PAGES of dirt on HSUS. you have… Berman is against MADD.
Look, you can try to weasel and spindoctor your way out of this all you want. Facts are facts and America is waking up to the HSUS agenda.
Just a side note in case you’re not aware of this – Protecting the foodsource of the United States comes under the NSA. Once a critcal point is reached, the NSA targets ALL threats to the security of the nation. They don’t have to answer to anyone. I wouldn’t want MY name on the list of contributors when that point is reached.

Could somebody (Twilighttime) please define the term “animal radical”? Is it “radical” or “extreme” to strive to end animal suffering and cruelty?

Once again, to characterize people with a higher morale agenda as somehow “radical” is a misuse of language and an attempt to hoodwink average Americans into believing a lie. No one I know in the animal-rights community wants to “wipe out pets and farm animals.” That claim is absurd and yet the farm and dairy proponents love to repeat it. It is a mischaracterization of the animal-rights agenda in order to maintain status quo with regard to their (mis)treatment of animals.

The animal-rights agenda is to end animal cruelty and suffering. Period. There is nothing radical or extreme in that.

Janet,
you wrote “As if… As if the HSUS were holding farm and dairy hostage. What a misguided assessment!”
lets see. How did HSUS approach this?
“either make sweeping changes or we push for a Ballot initiative. we HAVE the signatures you know”
That is called EXTORTION. It’s not negotiations, it’s not trying to look at the interests of the farmers and their livestock it’s an ultimatum.
People are so sick of your deluded BS, your lies, your campaigns using graphic images to sway public emotion when the whole time your upper echelon is padding their retirement funds.
So you wipe out Breeding and farming in the US. well, those items have to come from somewhere because the demand will still be there. Where exactly will they come from?
It’s no secret that the new “cash crop” coming into the US via Mexico is puppies. Supply and demand. Instead of ensuring the welfare of animals, HSUS actively lobbies for legislation to make proper raising and responsible breeding almost impossible. Puppies are the next “cocaine” from Central and South America. And if you try to protest them, they shoot you.
I’m waiting to hear the new Gov’t’s “War on Puppies”. I’m guessing this will happen RIGHT before the revolution to overthrow our Gov’t.

GroaninDallas is on the attack and I haven’t the energy or the will to argue. His bottom line must be at stake. Anyway, it’s just the same tired old rhetoric from the dairy and farming people. But I will say this. There was no extortion involved in HSUS’s method. (My, how you farm and dairy people do love to manipulate the truth!) HSUS worked hard to obtain the necessary thousands of signatures for the ballot initiative, through the efforts of countless supporters and outraged citizens. That’s not extortion. That’s how the legislative process works. Through diplomacy and the legislative process, HSUS was successful in achieving substantial gains for animals without either side having to spend the millions it would have cost to put the initiative on the ballot.

And, I will also counter your, “People are so sick of your deluded BS, your lies, your campaigns using graphic images,” with this reply: “People are sick of YOUR deluded BS, your lies (healthy eggs come from healthy chickens in the face of the worst salmonella egg recall in history), your campaigns (Happy Cows come from California, for instance).” The graphic images used by HSUS, Mercy For Animals, and other animal-rights group come directly out of the dairy and farm industry. Those images are real, they are shameful, and they show intense suffering and cruelty being perpetrated against farmed animals. We wouldn’t have graphic images if those in the industry didn’t provide them. Stop the cruelty, then maybe we can have a reasonable discussion.

RoninDallas says, “People are so sick of your deluded BS, your lies, your campaigns using graphic images to sway public emotion when the whole time your upper echelon is padding their retirement funds.”
Facts are Facts. The abused and distressed animals in the videos are not paid actors. They are suffering right this moment. Think about how they feel. Billions of sentient beings are being slaughtered unwillingly so that people can eat their flesh and wear their skins. Dogs and cats are continually bred so that humans can have a cute puppy or kitten for 6 months…or until their children are tired of feeding and exercising them. Some people are addicted to eating flesh and wearing fur, but that doesn’t help the animals. Do you want to be a part of the solution…or the problem?
Oh, and believe me, I am not part of the “Upper Echelon” nor padding my retirement…are you?

The Licking Co.Humane society Has a Hog roast isn’t that a slap in the face

Karista,
perhaps you’ve forgotten that people are also animals. We are HIGHLY educated to act not only as predators, but as stewards. “Billions of sentient beings” For goodness sake. What about the screams of the soybeans? do carrots desire to be avulsed from the ground for you to eat?
OMG, the poor bean sprouts killed at the very beginnig of their lives… OH the humanity.
Do you care about the Flora and Fauna in your own body?
Does a virus, bacteria or paracite deserve to be genocidally wiped out because you have a cold? Come on, if you want to go to the extreme, go ALL THE WAY.
Do I make ANY money off of animals? I imagine that if you found the most obscure reference, we all do. I personally work in animal rescue. I lose Thousands of dollars a year because I chose to be their guardian, their steward. I care about an animals quality of life, to heal them where possible and to either find them forever homes or allow them to live out the remainder of their lives knowing they are safe, healthy and cared about. I don’t care about donations,I rarely receive them because that’s not what I’m about. But if they want a steak for their birthday. they get a steak. If you don’t like that fact.. too bad. When you’re out there doing the grunt work, then I’ll be inclined to listen to what you have to say.

I’ll never stop the fight to end suffering and cruelty to animals, Ronin, in the dairy industry, in the farm industry, in the laboratory, at puppy mills, at fur farms, at circuses, zoos, rodeos, Hollywood movie sets, on land, in the air, or at sea. No, I’m not going home until the battle is won. And, it will be won when humans rise to their highest ideals of compassion and truth.

That day is coming–the signs of it are everywhere. And, may God Bless the animal-rights movement.

(Sorry about the unfortunate typo on your name, Ronin. Sometimes my old fingers miss their mark. And, I don’t think I ever claimed to be intelligent, though many say I am. Go figure. :)

Well, if we are going to make assumptions about our incomes, I would imagine that RoninDallas is probably a cattle rancher affiliated with the hamburger industry who can afford to spend thousands of dollars on the care of animals, because he makes so much more on exploiting them for food. Ronin, you don’t know me, so don’t assume you do, because your assumptions are way off base. Someone who rescues and cares about animals, as I do, does not equate their suffering to “feelings” of vegetables. Humans are animals, so humans better than anyone should know how it must feel to be hung upside down and scalded and skinned alive. All animals have brains, hearts, blood, nerves that interpret pain, distress, and fear. Humans don’t have to eat other animals to live healthy lives. We are able to make humane food choices that don’t cause harm. We can buy them at our local grocery stores.

Looks like ronindallas slept through economics class.

And twilighttime seems to be residing in the twilight zone.

But poor Elizbeth’s source of information is the sneaky snarky Rick Berman, the evil-genius antichrist DC pr lobby-wonk who drops millions convincing us that drunk driving is not a problem, cigarettes are not bad for us, mercury in fish is okay for kids and the Americans with Disabilities Act is a commie plot.

Elizabeth get a clue. Humanewatch, ActivistCash, AnimalScam and the Center for Consumer Freedom are all one source; the infamous Richard Berman. There are no respected journalists, scientists or scholars who will use Berman or any of his front groups as a source. For more information about Berman and his front groups check out
http://humanewatch.info/
http://www.google.com/search?rlz=1C1RNNN_enUS370US385&aq=f&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8&q=berman+exposed
http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=Richard_Berman_cares_about_animals:_clients_exposed
@RoninDallas Industrial ag is the biggest threat to our food security. If the agricultural industry can’t produce food safely, humanely and without hurting our environment then get out of the business. If you can’t do it right, don’t do it.

I believe Ms.Huntsman is not really up to speed on what is going on in Ohio or what Ohioans want for their animals.

Bicycles and motorcycles are a poor analogy. These are both choices made by riders. Most ride carefully, and there aren’t as many accidents as Ms. Huntsman would have us believe.

A better analogy would be the sttatus of cows versus the status of chickens under the Animal Welfare Act, 7 U.S.C 2133-2159. http://awic.nal.usda.gov/nal_display/index.php?info_center=3&tax_level=3&tax_subject=182&topic_id=1118&level3_id=6735&level4_id=0&level5_id=0&placement_default=0. Not all animals are protected by the Animal Welfare Act, and certainly cows, chickens and other animals used for food by some in the US are not protected by this act. This is the fault of animal agriculture.
The HSUS doesn’t care if you eat dead animals, or if you have pets, so long as you treat them well. If farmers could be trusted to treat their animals well, the HSUS wouldn’t have to get involved. I would hope that Ms. Huntsman can crawl past her lack of information, get some journalistic ethics, and ensure that animals in Ohio do not go without protection the way they do now. Ohio is one of 3 states in the US and its territories that does not have the ability to prosecute animal abuse as a felony.

No one is trying to put agriculture out of business except farmers themselves.

Janet and Karista,

I agree with you both 100%. Dairy, meat, and egg production hinge on abysmal torture, suffering, and death. But thanks to new technology such as the camera phone and websites such as YouTube, this suffering cannot be kept a nasty, dark secret any more–millions of people worldwide, on a daily basis, are now able to see the “graphic images,” and truly see how the animal flesh and secretions made it to their plate.

The animal rights movement will win because this movement is driven by committment and passion–if you look to another dark page in America’s history, you’ll see that human slavery was once condoned and justified by arguing that the black wasn’t human and could therefore be enslaved and exploited. Compassionate, enlightened people during slavery days fought this, and they didn’t let up until slavery was abolished. Likewise, the animal rights movement will not let up until the enslavement, torture, and slaughter of non-human animals has been abolished.

RoninDallas, I have seen this quote misquoted and grossly edited, but I gotta give you the “prize” for completely changing it to fit your nefarious agenda. You said:

Take a look at some of HSUS’s grand Poobah’s comments.
” one generation and out” ” I have no problem with the extinction of the domesticated dog”

The quote you have “revised” never, ever contained the word dog and was not even referencing domesticated pets. It was referring to heirloom breeds of livestock plus it comes from almost 20 years ago.

The sad fact is that you and your ilk have no real defense against the HSUS except to dig up and “modify” old quotes from HSUS leadership, promote scare tactics (they’re going to make us all vegan and take away our dogs) and in general defend the heinous abuse that goes on in the agriculture industry. The fact is that, as an earlier poster pointed out, today’s technology is lifting the big black curtain behind which agribusiness has been operating (and I include puppy mills in this category) and exposing it for the filthy, cruel, and uncaring industry it is. Yes, there are good farmers and breeders out there, but those that have decided it is in their best interest to align themselves with the bad guys against the HSUS and the rest of us, will come to see the error in their judgement. And if this fight puts them out of business, it is their own fault. Many producers have embraced the HSUS and other animal welfare organizations and have walked away from the industrialized model of agriculture back to “real” farming. They will be the winners in this fight…as will the animals.

and to Jill – Your local Humane Society is not part of HSUS. HSUS was founded to address the larger issues that local organizations have neither the resources or clout to address. Just look at the founding statement of the HSUS:
—–
In the 1950s, the founders of The HSUS recognized that animal welfare professionals at these [local] organizations were consumed with the day-to-day tasks of community animal care and control.

No organization gave a national voice to the fight against cruelty and the celebration of the
human-animal bond.

The founding mission of The HSUS was to support the work of local societies by speaking with
just such a voice.

And the HSUS does just that, for all animals, not just pets.

Hey Ronnie — “What about the screams of the soybeans? do carrots desire to be avulsed from the ground for you to eat?
OMG, the poor bean sprouts killed at the very beginnig of their lives… OH the humanity.
Do you care about the Flora and Fauna in your own body?
Does a virus, bacteria or paracite deserve to be genocidally wiped out because you have a cold? Come on, if you want to go to the extreme, go ALL THE WAY.”
Here’s something you may want to consider: PLANTS DON’T HAVE CENTRAL NERVOUS SYSTEMS AND DON’T HAVE A SURVIVAL INSTINCT.

Rachel, here is the elephant in the room.
Human beings are not going to become vegetarians.

Some are, some will be, but universally it is not going to happen in this or the next 12 lifetimes.

This is a fact.

There will never be any sort of animal rights movement until this demand is off the table.

The bad guys use it to their GREAT advantage.

There is much respect, and some wisdom, in a vegatarian choice, but it CANNOT be demanded of others.
It is a personal agenda and what such a demand does is insure that the ARM will forever be diluted..and forever fail.
The harm that it has done is enormous.

If everyone would give up their agendas and stick to ONE issue..the humane life and death of animals, which is, simply, the old fashioned practice of ANIMAL HUSBANDRY, we would be able to fight back the twits with some power.

Of course people love their agendas.

More than they love animals.

And until common sense returns, and until people are willing to give up their personal agendas for the greater good, animals will continue to suffer.

The greatest fear of the bad guys is that one morning we will all wake up and speak with ONE voice demanding ONE thing..
The humane life and death of animals.

Because there is no REAL argument against it.

Littleblackdogs, I’ve really appreciated your comments so far, but do you honestly believe in such a notion as “humane death”? Really now. Is there such a thing? If the knocking out of an animal with a captive bolt, or electrically immobilizing so as to render the animal “insensible to pain,” and then the suspending of the animal upside down on a conveyor belt to have his or her throat stuck with a knife so the dangling animal will “bleed out,” then the dunking of the animal, often after they’ve regained consciousness, into a vat of hot water to remove bristles and hair and feathers or to “soften” the skin, and then hacking him or her to pieces on down the assembly line–if this is all “humane,” I’d sure like to know what you think is INhumane! C’mon now. The “humane death” myth of the farm and dairy industry is just another attempt to hoodwink and befuddle Americans into believing their “meat” died happy.

If this is “humane death,” then why are death row inmates put to death in this manner? Why? Because “humane death” is speciesist doubletalk.

Pesky fingers! What I meant to say of course:

If this is “humane death,” then why are death row inmates NOT put to death in this manner? Why? Because “humane death” is speciesist doubletalk.

Anyone who commits murder should pay for his crime. This, everyone embraces easily. Everyone who eats the products of slaughterhouses, bearing responsibility for his or her actions, before consuming it, must bear witness to the screams and squeals, the convulsions of bodies hanging upside down on hooks, the convulsions of bodies on the floor, the trembling in fear of bodies dragged to the final blow or blows, the isolation of beings in metal crates, the gushing of blood from necks — in essence, the sheer terror that a being wishing to live — multiplied by row upon row of creaking conveyance — underwent to titillate some cells on the human tongue.

In so doing, the nebulous notion that meat grows on trees may perhaps begin to be dispelled. Anyone who has not witnessed the reality with his or her own eyes cannot, in this case, differentiate between the truth and a fairy tale.

‘do you honestly believe in such a notion as “humane death”? Really now. Is there such a thing?’

Thank you Rachel for assuring me that when I had to put my Lucy down after 18 years or watch her suffer with kidney failure I was performing an inhumane act.

That was my post, LBD, not Rachel’s. Why are you bent on misrepresenting Rachel?

Yes, of course, euthanasia is humane for animals (and humans) in chronic pain and suffering WITH NO HOPE OF RECOVERY. That’s not what we’re talking about. We’re talking about relatively healthy young (baby) farmed animals who are put to death, against their wills, for no other reason than “to titillate some cells on the human tongue.” (thanks Burnbs!)

Furthermore, Rachel never “demanded” veganism or even vegetarianism. All she said was “Dairy, meat, and egg production hinge on abysmal torture, suffering, and death,” which is true! And, ” …the animal rights movement will not let up until the enslavement, torture, and slaughter of non-human animals has been abolished.”

Eat animals and their secretions if you want to, but the struggle for animal-rights will continue.

Imprecise emotionally charged language is UNACCEPTABLE.

It accomplishes nothing except fueling the bad guy’s fire.
DOES ANYBODY UNDERSTAND WHAT WE ARE UP AGAINST?
Gazillions of snarky clever high-powered attorneys!
Who make gazillions of dollars representing gazillions of impervious multinational corporations!

They laugh at us!
Until we get our act together begin thinking and acting like lawyers and stand behind ONE SIMPLE MESSAGE and stop with the loosey-goosey langusge and the emotional tirades and the infighting and the expressions of horror at fly-swatting they will continue to laugh at us.

And nothing will be accomplished for any animal anywhere.

In Islam there is a proverb:
When one is faced with two choices, ‘bad’ and ‘worse’…bad is better’.

We are faced with two choices..’bad’ we make compromises…and ‘worse’..the status quo remains the status quo.

If any of you are foolish enough to think there can be some sort of David and Goliath thing here,
than you better quick produce a Martin Luther King for animal rights.

Lecturing me, by the way, on the horrors of the factory farm and the abattoir is beyond inane.

I have been at this since before you were born.

I will sit here in a moment of Awe for just a bit from what littleblackdogs stated. BRAVO, Well said.
all this talk of “humane killing”. Really? the end result is death. Not overly humane when the goal is not to kill. But face it folks, people EAT ANIMALS. We could revert back to hunting with clubs and spears or we could move forward to sedating them before we kill them, but we will still kill them and eat them. If you Choose a vegan lifestyle because that is your belief. I will fight tooth and nail to protect that. the minute you attempt to demand others to follow that lifestyle (aside from your own children) my fight then is against you.
and now for Florence,
here’s the actual quotes with dates
“We have no ethical obligation to preserve the different breeds of livestock produced through selective breeding. . One generation and out. We have no problem with the extinction of domestic animals. They are creations of human selective breeding.” Wayne Pacelle, Senior VP of Humane Society of the US, formerly of Friends of Animals and Fund for Animals, Animal People, May, 1993
Maybe a more recent one for you?
“We’re against animal fighting and killing animals for fur…. We want Americans to eat fewer
animals,” Wayne Pacelle, DVM News, Jan 1, 2008.

Now tell me again what the ultimate goal of HSUS is?

I you are a vegetarian on humane grounds, I sncerely applaud you.

But if you expect others to do the same and do not wish to be (unintentionally) hypocritical, than you CANNOT:
drive a car
build a house
buy a house containing plywood
wax your floor or your legs
use anything plastic
use adrenalin, cortisone insulin
have an aquarium
keep your grandmother’s bone china
buy wax paper, crayons, paint rubber or wool
have surgery, play tennis or the guitar

And that is the short list…
Here is the long one..
http://www.vegfamily.com/lists/animal-ingredients.htm

Littleblackdog, anyone who is a vegan and lives in a house is a hypocrite? Aaaaalrighty then!! Blow me down! What WERE we thinking? I guess we should all just go back to eating 90 animals per year, wasting millions of gallons of water, cutting down thousand more acres of rainforests, and above all, go right back to committing unspeakable acts of cruelty by the millions??

And that’s just one item on your list.

The message of the HSUS is clear. Compassionate humans are making their voices heard. Stop exploiting innocent animals. They don’t want to be abused, bred continuously just to lose their babies, or slaughtered. There are so many delicious alternatives available now. Give compassion and kindness to all animals a try.
Here’s a link that “vegans” use for cruelty-free products:
http://www.leapingbunny.org/shopping.php

Killing animals for food is easily avoidable. I urge you to think of your dinner from the dinner’s point of you. All animals want to live.

Burnbs,you might try reading before reacting.

Littleblackdogs, you are absolutely correct in saying there are many items we use on a daily basis that contain hidden animal parts, much to our disgust and dismay. The point is we vegans strive to be conscientious consumers inasmuch as it is possible for us to do so. I read labels with a magnifying glass and reject all potential purchases that contain anything from an animal, including such minor items as vitamins or medications cased in gelatin.

I do not buy leather, feathers, furs, silk, or wool, or foods, cosmetics, or cleaning agents with any animal ingredients or that are CURRENTLY tested on animals. The harm I do cause, unintentionally, is far, far less than the harm of people who consume animals and their secretions and who don’t bother to read labels. Isn’t it better to do the LEAST POSSIBLE HARM than to do nothing at all?

So, call me a hypocrite because I live in a house and drive a car. At least I am as conscientious a consumer as I can be. What are YOU doing to cause the least possible harm? What is YOUR solution for stopping animal cruelty running rampant in the dairy and farm industries? And what, precisely, is your agenda here?

I’d also like to contest your assertion that “emotionally charged language” is unacceptable. There is nothing unacceptable about using language that causes an emotional reaction, if the language accurately describes the truth. If an honest description of an animal slaughterhouse didn’t cause an emotional reaction, there would be something amiss in the description or in the reader. The fact is slaughterhouses are ugly and killing is (or should be) emotionally charged. Not my fault, that’s just a fact. There is NO way to describe the killing of an animal without causing an emotional reaction, and the public deserves to know how their food animals are killed. They certainly are not “euthanized,” nor do they live out their full lives. We are merely drawing back the curtain. Too bad if that disturbs you emotionally. There would be something seriously wrong with you if it didn’t.

Thank you for applauding my “vegetarianism.” I hope you will clap a bit louder now that you know I am actually VEGAN. For Animals. For Humanity. For Earth.

Janet, I am not saying you are a hypocrite..you are obviously the kindest most compassionate person..
But the issue here is the law.
Kindness and compassion and emotion do not change laws, except maybe in the movies.
In the US, animals are legally defined as ‘property’ and ‘animal cruelty’ laws are STATE LAWS’
Which means that animals will be legally considered ‘property’ and animal cruelty laws will remain in the hands of the respective states until Pluto becomes a shopping mall OR until an ‘activist’ Supreme Court decides to toss out 200 + years of settled U.S. historical case law and deeply established legal precedent and ‘finds’ that the treatment of animals in the United States will no longer be defined or adjudicated by ‘states rights’ OR by the ANCIENT Laws-Of -Property’.

This is what we are up against!
Any constitutional lawyer will tell you that this is nearly impossible to change.
Property law and ‘states rights’ law are two of the most inviolate and deeply ingrained issues in American history.

And yes, I have a ‘solution’.
As I said above.. ‘If everyone would give up their agendas and stick to ONE issue..the humane life and death of animals, which is, simply, the old fashioned practice of ANIMAL HUSBANDRY, we would be able to fight back the twits with some power.

Law is based upon ‘precedent’.
The concept of animal husbandry has precedent.
Not a lot, but it is a beginning.

‘Humanity’ in itself, HAS NO LEGAL PRECEDENT’.
Emotion DOES NOT CHANGE LAW.
THE APPLICATION OF HISTORICAL LEGAL PRECEDENT TO THE PRESENT SOCIAL ‘CLIMATE’ IS THE ONLY WAY TO CHANGE THE TREATMENT OF ANIMALS.

Anything else is baying to the moon.

Not all laws are based on precedent; a precedent law is one established regarding an issue that has not been previously brought before the courts. When a case comes before the court involving an issue that has never been previously heard, then a precedent is set when a decision is rendered on that case—then that case becomes the guide (or precedent) when similar issues are brought before the court.

Today, precedents are being set on issues involving animal rights/protection/welfare, and because of the heightened awareness and interest in laws involving animals, animal law is a whole new field of law for aspiring attorneys to go into.

“ALDF’s Animal Law Program works closely with law students and law professionals to advance the emerging field of animal law.” (Animal Legal Defense Fund)

http://www.aldf.org/article.php?list=type&type=15

Slavery used to be legal in this country, then it was outlawed; child labor used to be legal in this country, then it was outlawed; denial of rights to vote to blacks and women used to be legal in this country, then the laws were changed, giving them the right to vote; racial discrimination in housing used to be legal in this country, then it was outlawed—I’m old enough to remember the old “caucasian only” deed restriction.

Big changes coming the area of animals…new precedents.

I understand LBD, and perhaps I had a knee-jerk reaction to your use of the term “humane death of animals,” as there is no such thing. I think you would agree. The term lulls people into believing their “meat” died happy. If people are going to eat animals, then perhaps it is best, as you imply, to struggle for a “better death” than animals currently experience. I cannot find it in my heart to struggle for any sort of death for an animal who wants to live. That said, I see your point. Incremental baby steps toward a higher ideal are at least doable.

HSUS is doing the best that it can to work within the restrictive confines of a laboriously difficult political system–changing laws one at a time, state by state. Their agenda is largely the same: to reduce animal suffering through legal means. That is admirable, and it is working. And, it is frustratingly tedious, tiresome, thankless work, against many powerful foes and opponents, who seldom fight fair.

So, animal activists are rightfully angry when these pitifully small improvements for animals are made, but the vast majority of animals still suffer horribly. We can’t snap our fingers and have it all stop, as we would like it to in our lifetimes. Maybe that is the impossible dream. Take away our dream of a better world for animals of all species and you take away hope.

Many of us are not lawyers, we are just average people who think with our hearts, not always with our heads. It hurts to the core knowing that even now, animals are being slaughtered or are intensively confined living miserable lives, and we can do nothing to stop it. My head constantly spins with the images and sounds of suffering or dying animals. Meet Your Meat.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VIjanhKqVC4&feature=player_embedded#!

As Martin Luther King once said, “Let us realize the arc of the moral universe is long but it bends toward justice.”

Well, there is hope in that. Most people who care deeply about ending animal suffering just want to shorten that long arc.

You are right that we need to band together and struggle as one, logically and systematically and legally, one small improvement at a time. I support HSUS for doing just that. At the same time, I will give animals my voice, in whatever manner I instinctively feel will do the most good, because that’s all I CAN do at my advanced age. I am learning, as we all are, what works best in what situations. Sometimes we succeed in changing hearts, and sometimes we don’t. As I said, I am not a lawyer so I do not think or talk like one. I am not a politician and have no interest in being one. I am an average person who reads and who sees and who listens and who feels and who is not afraid to confront the cruelties humans inflict upon animals and to try to stop them however I can.

Wrong, Rachel..But I’m not the one to give you legal lessons..
Just because an issue has not been adjudicated does not mean there is no precedent.
Many human issues are simply matters of established historical societal ‘habits’..for want of a better word.
There is some sort of precedence for everything.
In regards to human action and behavior there is nothing ‘new’ for hundreds of years.
The digital issue has been a sticky wicket as there never were computers and all they entail.
But there IS precedent just the same..established law regarding telephones, mail,trademark/copyright free-speech,privacy..

As regards to animal law, there is plenty of precedent..the negative being ,as I said before, that animals are legally ‘property’..
I am too bored to explain property law just now..
The positive is that there are states that managed to pass some anti-cruelty statutes, thus negating, in some instances, the ‘animals as property’ ‘it’s mine, I will do with it as I
wish’ problem.

I’m REALLY bored now, because nobody is getting this.
But someday some people will, and then things will begin to change.

But I will assure you all of one thing…every time any of us uses imprecise words and unprovable arguments, or weep publically about the sufferings of baby cows, or argue without facts,
or fight amongst ourselves or stoop to the inanity of Newkirk’s fly-swatting rant, the bad guys break open another bottle of champagne.

And the minute we stop?
The bad guys will go into a frenzy the likes of which will be a MOST delicious thing of wonder.

And there will finally be the prospect of hope for the creatures with whom we share this planet.

Please God, in my lifetime….

LBD, you say that you, “are too bored to explain property law just now.” Actually, there’s really no need for you to explain property law to me, as I have studied and taught property law.

As for your statement that you are bored because “nobody is getting this”; we can read and we understand what you are saying, so we “get” it; however, since you present arguments flawed with misinformation, we reject it.

Don’t bring the Law into this conversion, we all know that if you do anything in the name of Animal Rights that’s it’s okay, even it if kills someone, violates Biosecurity, destroy’s property or is completely agaisnt American Freedom.

burnbs it takes more water and the removeal of trees and grass to raise your vegies then it dose to raise livestock.Plus more sprays and toxins to infect the air we breath.We use fly sprays on our livestock but I use a all natural merigold livestock spray no toxins involved, it can be ordered through valley vet.com.Livestock also puts out fertilizer for the grass to grow kind of like recycling,lol, your vegies don’t do that. If not taken care of crops can take top soil from the ground and then it is not worth a thang.

To Janet Weeks and the other new paid puppets:

1. According to Animal People News, Ted Strickland was desperate to keep HSUS’s initiative off the ballot because he is in a tight race for reelection. Strickland made a deal with Wayne believing it would help deliver votes and keep the rednecks at home. Guess what? John Kasich is surging in the polls with a double digit lead. Despite the HSUS spin, the Buckeye Compromise sounds like a lose-lose.
The Humane Farming Association, with 225,000 actual (not fake or deceased) members, took out a full page ad condemning Wayne for selling out the animals while claiming “victory.”

2. I’ve never met Richard Berman and HumaneWatch won’t return my calls, but who cares? They do great work, as does Nathan Winograd, Companion Animal Protection Society and countless other HSUS critics, most of whom represent the legitimate animal welfare community. To claim that CCF is your major opponent is an insult to the hundreds of thousands of people who have learned the true nature of your organization on their own. Like me.

3. Finally, I am so sick of HSUS defending all the other organizations Consumer Freedom exposes, especially Mothers Against Drunk Driving. CCF: against mothers, apple pie; for driving under the inluence and torturing kittens… MADD is a terrible charity, rated D by AIP and one out of four stars by Charity Navigator. It started out with a coherent mission but, over time, lost its way. I have seen newpaper articles condemning their business practices. In response to many harsh comments on the MADD Charity Navigator page, the CEO actually acknowledged that they need to improve their fundraising methods and efficiency.
Maybe they will clean up their act.
HSUS surely won’t.

Paid puppet, Jane?! That’s a laugh. I do this because I give a damn about animals, unlike those in the dairy and farm industries who are all about profit. No one pays me a dime or a red penny either. I speak from my heart and from what I know is the truth: Nonhuman animals suffer just as human animals do. I aim to stop it, alongside thousands of people in the animal-rights movement. Factory farming is wrong, if it isn’t plain evil, and most people know it. That’s a fact. Sixty-three percent of California’s voting population will tell you the same. Sorry, but you’ve been hoodwinked and bamboozled just like your handful of money-grubbing friends.

You see, the problem is, when you don’t like the truth, you can’t just make stuff up such as calling people you don’t even know “paid puppets.” C’mon now, don’t you see how ridiculous that makes your argument? Why, it completely destroys the credibility of everything that follows. Logic and Reasoning 101.

Sorry, Janet Weeks, to have assumed you were one of the staff members: personnel paid to post scripted rebuttals to anything that might expose the dark underbelly of Wayne Pacelle’s soul or the decades-long fundraising, financial and legal scandals that have turned off so many members of the legitimate animal welfare community.

I am a member of that community and I speak from my heart as well. As my comments implied, I am a long-time member of the Humane Farming Association and subscriber to Animal People News -the main publication of the animal rights movement. HSUS has tens of thousands of critics working for animals through direct care, advocacy, law enforcement or financial support. We are extremely credible and are not going away anytime soon.

Would Just one of you Animal Rights People tell me HOW MUCH MONEY HSUS SPEND IN OHIO FOR SHELTERS JUST ONE AND PROVE IT TELL ME THE SHELTER AND SHOW HOW MUCH MONEY THEY SPEND THEY DO NOTHING BUT TAKE PEOPLES MONEY LIE TO THEM THEY PUT MORE DOGS AND CAT TO SLEEP EACH YEAR OR ONE OF THERE SPIN OFF GROUPS THAN ANY DOG POUND YOU CAN LOOK THAT UP ON APIS WEB SITE THE ONLY THING HSUS PETA ALF ELF MA IS GOOD FOR IS TAKEN PEOPLES MONEY TELLING THEM HOW MUCH THEY DO FOR THE ANIMALS WHEN WAYNE PACELLE SAID NO MORE ANIMALS WOOUD BE GREAT THEN HE COULD STEAL MORE MONEY FOR HIM SELF

JUST SHOW ME WERE THEY SPENT THE MONEY IN OHIO FOR SHELTERS SHOW US SOME PAPER WORK

HSUS and all thier flunkies are talking about how wrong it is to use animals for food, ok, they don’t have a word to say about animals that are killed at a young agr for thier body parts. I am glad the pig died because now my brother is alive with the pigs valve keeping him going. They are also saying that being a vegie eater is more healthy then eating dairy and meat, that statement is very untrue. There are protins and vitamins in meat and dairy that your body needs, you can’t get them from vegies alone. This whole thang has gotten out of hand in my opinion. This should be about inhumane treatment of animals all animals, slaughtering animals for food is not inhumain the way it is done in some slaughter houses is very inhumain and needs to be taken care of.Livestock is not just used for humans to eat, what do you thank is in your dog and cats food, its not all vegies.I personally thank that milk and eggs were better for you way back when before the gov. steped in and took all the really good stuff out of it before you can drink it, same with eggs. I can really tell the difference between a store bought egg and an egg from my chickens, my chickens eggs actually have tast to them. Argue about it all you want but I don’t plan on eating just vegies or going without clothes cause guess what every thang you ware is made from some animal it dont come from a tree or a vegie.Well almost every thang.