Speech, it’s not free anymore

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Editor:
A cold day has come now that citizens all over Ohio can no longer express their opinions without fear of retribution from certain animal rights organizations.

Now in order to be able to exercise your First Amendment right to freedom of speech, it can only be done so as long as it doesn’t include naming animal rights groups. However, it is perfectly acceptable for them to publicly slander animal owners, farmers and pet breeders and to drag our industries through the mud.

As a veteran, having served 21 years in our armed forces protecting our rights, I can no longer exercise not only my First Amendment, but also I’ve be stripped of my 14th Amendment right by the so called emergency order enacted by ex-Gov. Strickland.

Makes me ashamed to say that I was born, raised and put my life in harm’s way for Ohio. Does Ohio care about my rights or are lobbyists more important than Ohio’s citizens?

My question is where is the “emergency”? Where are all the “wild” animals running our streets, terrorizing neighborhoods?

I checked the health department, ODNR, sheriff and police within a 100-mile radius. None of them know of any emergency involving exotic animals.

What I have found is there are many businesses that are, and will be, affected by this ban: cat and dog shows, hotels, car rentals, restaurants, feed mills, pet shops and veterinarians. Even the state itself will lose money with the loss of propagation permits. USDA will have no need for as many staff, the list continues in a huge ripple effect.

Animal Rights groups pushed to ban horse slaughter, used the argument that horses were not killed properly, were improperly transported and sometimes were being abused.

Instead of passing laws to fix the problem and to mandate new slaughter practices, transport practices and stronger penalties for abuse, they had it banned completely.

Sound familiar? I believe it was a direct attempt to shut down the horse industry by destroying all profit and now they are doing it to the exotic animal industry.

All this job loss, lost revenue to the state, and invented hysteria so some non-Ohioan can say they saved the public at the cost of innocent animal owners?

Meanwhile, men and women from every state put thier lives in harm’s way daily around the world to protect the very freedoms that these un-namable animal rights groups are taking away from every Ohioan.

Keith Campbell
Frazeysburg, Ohio

33 Comments

  1. vicki says:

    Mr. Campbell, you are confusing the horse industry and the meat industry. The horse industry earns its billions on LIVE horses doing what they were bred and raised to do, not on horse slaughter. Last I heard, the horse industry wasn’t selling meat. They are selling tickets to see horses race and perform and when their careers end, they don’t suddenly become a food animal. Law enforcement uses them to protect our streets and I don’t think law enforcement is selling meat. Neither are the therapy centers, polo matches and any number of services and work that use horses. Learn the regulations for food animals and you will soon discover that horses are not and do not qualify as food animals in our country.

    You may want to tell the 100,000 horses that are slaughtered every year that there is a ban. Doesn’t a ban mean they can’t be sent to slaughter?

    • FED-UP &PO'd farmer says:

      No VIcky- YOU are the one confused. Horses have been used for food since prehistoric times and up to this very second. Just because horsemeat isnt popular in this country doent mean it isnt being consumed. There is NO regulations that say people CANNOT eat horsemeat-rather, if you read our constitution, no one has the right to tell others what they can or cant eat.

      As far as the horse industry itself-the price of horses used to have a “ground-floor” whereby the value of a horse was slaughter price, and owners could expect to get a minimum price for selling their horse. The slaughter ban has made it so that people who have to sell cannot even get bids-leading to terrible suffering not only to the industry, but an unprecedented number of horses.

      Irregardless, the bottom line is that you have your opinion, and other people have theirs. You have ABSOLUTELY NO RIGHT to tell other people what they can do with their horses-nor has anyone the right to tell you what to do with your horses. If I want to sell mine to slaughter-that is MY right. I believe that is one of the things the author of this letter is trying to show.

      It is a real tragedy that this country is allowing our freedoms to be taken from us just because some people have differing opinions… Irregardless of how anyone feels on issues,NO ONE should tolerate ANY of our freedoms to be infringed upon…that is the price of freedom.

  2. vicki says:

    No, FED-UP &PO’d farmer, what you perceive as your freedom or right is a violation of food safety regulations. You are infringing on the freedoms and rights of consumers to their guarantee that their food is safe for consumption. Horses have no traceability and no production records because they are not food animals in our country. You can trace a cow back to the farm it was born but that’s not possible with horses. If you want to slaughter your horses for human consumption, you must follow food safety regulations and that means the horse must be raised for food from birth and you must be able to prove they have been raised as a food animal. That is not my opinion, that is the law. Are you saying that farmers don’t follow food safety regulations or is it that you just don’t want follow them for horses? The horse industry makes billions from live horses. Slaughter represents 3 cents of every $100 earned. That is not even a rounding factor so the impact you are trying to portray is moot.

    BTW, what slaughter ban are you referencing? A slaughter ban would mean you could not send your horse to slaughter. Would you like to tell the 100,000 horses that were slaughtered last year that there is a ban?

    • FED-UP &PO'd farmer says:

      You still are confused. We farmers dont have to keep any proof that our animals are raised for food-whether poultry, cattle, goats, sheep, ect. There is NO such law for them, neither is there a law for horses. We have to abide by drug labels as to withdrawal times, but if you look at labels on medication for horses you will see many times the statement “not for use in horses intended for food”.

      It is a well known FACT that the US horse industry has lost a major proportion of money due to the shutdown of the slaughter plants in the US. Thank goodness that Sue Wallis and the United Organization of the Horse have initiated the building of a new facility in Wyoming, and that other facilities are being planned in states where the consequenses of unwanted horses have jolted people into seeing that humane slaughter is necessary. When completed, horses wont have to travel across the border into Mexico and Canada where there are some slaughter facilities that are not humanely ran…

      • Christy Lee says:

        Dear PO’D. You are not correct in thinking that the closure of slaughter plants for horses killed the market in the US. In 2006, the year before the closings, 142,740 American horses were slaughtered, and that number only dropped by 14% the year the plants were closed. By 2008, slaughter was back to the second highest level in almost ten years. They are being sent to Canada and Mexico. And for both you and Maggie…I grew up on a 1200 acre farm in Ohio….and I am just as tough as you are. Vicki is right.

  3. vicki says:

    Next time you take animals to slaughter, read the paper you sign. You are stating the animals comply with food safety regulations. There IS a law and I’m sure the FDA would like to hear that farmers are not following the law. So the labels on horse meds state not intended for food animals but you still want to send them to slaughter? Thank you for confirming what I posted. Horses are not food animals. The horse industry lost money for the same reason every other industry has lost money. It is called a tanked economy.

    Sue and anyone else can build a plant but any plant that operates must follow FDA food safety regulations. That means you have to prove the horse has been raised as a food animal from birth. In addition, there are no inspections for horse meat so the horse meat cannot be commercially sold. Rather difficult to run a plant without any revenue and without any horses that can comply with regulations, don’t you think? But Sue isn’t one to let facts or details get in the way.

    Actually, you are wrong again. Opening a plant will not stop the exports. Over 754,000 horses were exported to Mexico, Canada and Japan from 1989 to 2006. Did you complain about the plants in Mexico when the US plants were open?

    Yes, thank goodness for Wallis. During that farce of a meeting, we had a record number of people join our organization. And thank goodness she proved that the real radicals were sitting in the room. Breeders that produce the “unwanted” horses they send to slaughter so they can breed more and meat industry people. We couldn’t have asked for any better press. The two top speakers, Grandin and Abbey didn’t say what the radicals wanted to hear and then the crowning glory was the incident with Wallis and an equine advocate that did nothing but walk into the room. Priceless.

    • FED-UP &PO'd farmer says:

      Vicki-you STILL dont know what you are talking about. The ONLY paper that MAY be asked for sellers to fill out at SOME sales are for antibiotic residues-PERIOD. I have NEVER had to fill out any such papers as you have described-nor has anyone else I know of…and I just a couple days ago had a veal slaughtered. As far as medicine labeled “not for horses intended for food”-That means you DO NOT use that medication if the horse is to be slaughtered!!!That PROVES that horses are KNOWN to be used for food. In addition-THERE ARE NO LAWS THAT SAY YOU MUST PROVE A HORSE (or any other specie) IS RAISED AS A FOOD ANIMAL FROM BIRTH if it is slaughtered. As far as meat inspection-the federal government wont PAY for inspections of horse meat but that doesnt mean someone else can pick-up the tab..and that is what several states are planning on doing…THANKS to Sue Wallace.

      As for breeders breeding horses that are sent to slaughter-we are getting right back to the topic of this letter. If someone wants to breed horses and sell them for slaughter-THAT IS THEIR BUSINESS-NOT-I repeat-NOT ANY OF YOUR BUSINESS NOR ANYONE ELSES-PERIOD!!!! Ironically-horse slaughter has SAVED the draft horse breeds from extinction, and,even though you dont want to hear it, advanced many breeds.

      You obviously have your opinion about horse slaughter-that is YOUR right. However, you DO NOT have the right to tell others what they may do with THEIR horses-nor do others have the right to tell you what to do with YOUR horses. I wont change your mind about slaughter-nor will you change mine. The letter Keith has written is to remind us that even though we have differing opinions, NO ONE has the right to FORCE their opinion on others-that includes passing “speciallty laws” that do NOT benefit ANYONE but are just simply made up because of emotional opinion on things that have NO bearing on the majority of people.

  4. vicki says:

    The emotional opinion argument is not going to work here, Mr. Farmer. Everything I have posted can be verified by the FDA, CFIA and EU. If you chose to ignore laws, and regulations that’s your choice but it sure does explain why there have been so many food recalls. Do all farmers consider laws and regulations emotional opinion?

    It was a wise decision to enact the recent law that increased FDA authority over our food supply. It’s quite obvious from your comments that more oversight is sorely needed.

    Exactly, don’t give the meds to slaughter horses. But they do. The horses going to slaughter were not raised as food animals.

    I can see that you haven’t done any research or you would know that the federal courts have already ruled that slaughter houses cannot pay for their own inspections. It is a violation of the law and in case you don’t know, federal law always out trumps state law, especially when it comes to international commerce. Not emotional opinion, fact.

    Sorry, but the majority is against slaughter so it is not MY opinion. In fact, Trent Loos stated at the summit that 9 out of 10 people are against slaughter. I’d say that is mighty good odds that you will see an end to horse slaughter very soon.

  5. maggie b says:

    “Emotional argument is not going to work here!” I think you’re right Vicki your emotionally based argument isn’t going to work with farmers that actually know what they are talking about.

    I wrote a letter to the editor of my local paper criticizing an illegal raid and seizure of animals in my area. Within ten days people began showing up at my house leaving notes on my locked gate with stupid messages that said things like, “I want to buy your puppies. I’m from LA, CA” When I read it I knew it was put there by a person from HSUS as a direct result of my criticism. I was very sorry I hadn’t been there when they arrived as I could have given them a cussing’ that would have lasted them a life time. Over the next month people would call about a rescue dog or about a pup, and show up that were obviously there for the animal rights group instead of the reason they had stated.

    One woman came into my house, supposedly to play with a dog that was available. She jumped up from the couch, started opening closed doors and ran through every room in my house including the bedroom where my husband was sleeping. When I showed her the adult dogs she cut me off as I told her how their houses were insulated. They had elevated beds with removable washable fleeces on each bed that was changed & washed regularly.

    In short HSUS sent people to my home to decide how they could harm my animal agriculture to shut me up and discredit me. It worried me but then I decided that I still live in the United States of America for a minute. Men and women are dying in foreign lands for my freedoms. I don’t own anything that matters to me more than those freedoms. So I will not sit down and shut up even if they figure a way to victimize me & my animals. If anything I will get louder. I’m one tough old bird and hard to chew.

    And for the Governor of Ohio….he’s a perfect example of what politicians can expect if they get in bed with the animal rights groups.

    • vicki says:

      Laws, regulations and facts are not emotional. They can evoke emotions but they are not emotional. Your post IS emotional.

      If laws and regulations were not ignored, organizations like HSUS would have no reason to exist.

  6. maggie b says:

    The only reason HSUS has to exist is to draw down 6 figure salaries for their employees while pushing a vegan agenda. Do you work for them?
    Incidence of animal abuse is less than one incident per million of population in any state in any year even those with tons of animal rights driven laws on the books. That is a fact. With so little to keep them busy they have to invent a job to stay in business.

    They use Saul Alinsky’s Rules for Radicals to push their radical agenda. That and the money they bilk out of the uninformed who think they are helping animals when in fact HSUS spends less than 1% of their income actually helping animals. They are a lobby group for vegan, animal rights, animal abolitionist group.

  7. ynnIL says:

    Ed, Please just re-read what you said and tell me if that really makes sense. Really?? Really??? American’s doing anything to make money. Geez!

  8. LynnIL says:

    WOW, PO’d Farmer, I’d have to say that vicki has made a lot more points then you. Her arguments seems to hold a lot more facts then yours. Oh actually I didn’t see any fact in yours. No one should have the right to torture, maim, abuse, neglect or otherwise do something to inflict pain and suffering on any living thing, animal or human. Do you get your jollies watching animals suffer? Do you like to pull the wings off flies? How about making coats out of puppy dog skin? That’s the way you make it sound. It seems the only thing you care about is the money you can get out of an animal. Not all people feel that way. Many people feel that they would do anything for their animals. And I have known many people who have done just. And you are one to talk about ones rights. You are trying to take the rights from others. You are trying to make others accept the way that you see animals. Like throw away garbage. But I think there are many more people who love their pets and animals and enjoy the love they get back. Maybe you should try loving your animals instead of seeing them as $ signs. It might make some of that anger go away.

    Oh and yes the polls do say that 9 out of 10 American’s are against horse slaughter. And remember, majority still rules here in the United States of America, at least for now.

    • FED-UP &PO'd farmer says:

      Vicky has shown NO points-period. There in NO truth in what she says because what she says about the FDA IS NOT TRUE. There is NO more traceback to cattle, hogs, or other species that there is of horses-period. My response would have to show laws and regulations that DO NOT exist-which would completely be asinine. Meat must be free from drugs/antibiotics-no matter which type is consumed..and there is absolutly NO paperwork required to show an animal was specifically raised for slaughter-so my “proof” for that would again have to show that a law was NOT made…Vicky has shown NO evidence of her claims-which would be hands down easier (if true) than trying to show something that DOESNT exist.

      One last thing…several of you AR activists need to return to school and study history, government, social studies, ect.. we live in a REPUBLIC- NOT-I repeat NOT-a pure democracy. Our republic we live in is a CONSTITUTIONAL based republic whereby we have certain inalienable rights that are not to be infringed on-even by a ‘majority rule”-one of these is freedom-the right to have and protect PROPERTY (animals included). We farmers DO NOT push our opionions onto others-nor are the exotic owners doing so. However, we have the right to our liberty-including our property-WITHOUT interference or infringement by others.

    • Oran says:

      Majority does not rule in the good old USA.

  9. Tom says:

    The point of the letter is HSUS taking away are rights then a few years later we see what happens Now Wayne Pacelle says take the horses to Mexico so they can be hit in the head with a hammer chain wrapped around the hind leg and bleed out still alive I the USA the horses was put down humame and was dead when they was bleed out not still kicking but Wayne says it ok for them to do that there

    • LynnIL says:

      Tom, Tom, Tom!! sorry but you have not seen the videos nor did your research. In Mexico they kill many with only a short knife stabbing them until they sever the spine. Yes you are right that Mexico slaughter is not known for being humane. But here in the US horse slaughter was just as bad as even when inspectors were suppose to be on the floor they weren’t. Even Temple Grandin said that horse slaughter must be monitored 24/7 since they could care less about the animals that they slaughter and at least 10% to 20% are still alive when they have their legs cut off and stomachs ripped open. You only have to watch the videos to see what really happens in the hell holes. youtube has thousands. Look for the one with the white mare in Mexico and watch the horror as they stab her and she falls still aware and the workers in the slaughter house cheer. Nice! Good people!

      And HSUS is not at fault. They don’t make laws they only do what the Arg orgs do and that is try and influence the lawmakers. I’m sure that if HSUS could stop horses from going to Mexico it would. But it is people like you who will not stand up for what is right and stop the transportation of our horses across the boarders. It is people like you who keep the horrors of slaughter going because so many are just plain greedy. They could care less if an animals suffers. And here I thought as generations got older they would get kinder. Still hoping though!

    • vicki says:

      Tom, what you described is exaclty what happened in the US plants. There is plenty of documenation. No, Wayne is saying that horse slaughter should be banned.

  10. Ed says:

    Hey my original comment was edited! That’s not very american to edit someone’s comment down without askin! How you gonna censor what someone’s got to say. You heard of the constitution?

    First civil rights people came along and took our rights away, then women’s rights came and took more of our rights away, then the gay rights people said we can’t be mean to gays, now the animal rights people are messin with our right to kill things.

    We farmers are lucky that there ain’t no laws on the books protecting farm animals and the few they have can’t possibly be enforced.

  11. LynnIL says:

    Ed,
    Why would I go to Russia? I was born an American from many generations of Americans. Why does being a farmer make you so angry? Does beinf a farmer make it right to torture animals? I’m betting many fellow farmers do not feel the way you do.

  12. FED-UP &PO'd farmer says:

    Sadly, Animal Rights activists continue to spew their lies, deceits, twisted truths, and omission of facts into any material they can-including comments here and elsewhere- supporting their attacts on peoples rights to animal ownership and use. They argue no matter how irrational they get, even when truth eludes them. When they are shown their false assumptions, many become childish and resort to name-calling, stone-throwing, and other childish methods. One of them above has resorted into falsly pretending to be a farmer in their attempts to attack farmers-smearing and belittling us farmers-typical of their twisted mentality. I also have decided to refrain from argument with another of the above, even though she gives false information and accusations. The truth is that many of these animal rights activists are so brainwashed they absolutely refuse to hear what they dont want to.

    Like the original letter written above by Keith, I need to point out that he is absolutely correct by saying our rights are being taken away, and regardless where you may stand on ANY animal ownership issues-such as farming, exotic ownership, pet, horse slaughter, ect., we ALL need to band together and FIGHT for our rights…if they are taken from us, we wont lose just animal issues, but ALL individual freedoms….something the communists (who started the animal rights movement as part of a longterm organized plan) are waiting for.

  13. vicki says:

    Mr. Farmer, since when are FDA regulations lies, deceits, twisted truths or omission of facts? If you look at the propaganda coming out of the slaughter supporters, there are no sources. It is all hearsay with no basis for the information or comments. Most of it is flat out lies and when we ask for proof, the name calling starts. Where is your proof that anything I have posted is not accurate?

    Your rights are not being taken away from you. Along with your “freedoms” come responsibility. Part of that responsibility is to follow laws and regulations, not ignore them. You don’t have the right to treat your “property” in any manner you chose when that treatment violates regulations and laws.

    We are not animal rights activists. Animals will never have rights. We advocate for humane treatment of animals. As Ed commented, it’s all about money and if the animals suffer so he can make money, he’s okay with it. If he wants to send toxic meat to consumers, it’s okay because he can make money. It is that attitude that is forcing people to take action and pass laws.

    Ed, in case you haven’t noticed, this is 2010. Every human deserves to be treated with respect no matter what color or sex they are or what their sexual preference is. Judge people on how they act and respect people and our laws, not on what they look like. Treating people with respect is not taking away your rights just as treating animals humanely is not taking away your rights.

  14. KeithC says:

    Vicki, In my letter what i was referring to is how just like what happened to the slaughter industry of call horses, this has been written about numerous times in Agriculture newspapers, when Animal Rights forced the slaughter houses to stop, the bottom fell out of the call horse market. The same thing will happen to the Exotic Animal industry which is exactly what Animal Rights want.

    The whole of the letter is how Animal Rights organizations are removing the Rights of Americans everyday. Would you care to enlighted the readers as to how long HSUS continued to gather money to support “Second Chance” when he was not amoung the living?

    Vicki Said: “Your rights are not being taken away from you. Along with your “freedoms” come responsibility. ”
    As a responsible animal owner, being licensed, have a vet on standby 24/7, USDA, ODNR, USF&W and ODA approved to own, care for, propagate and sell my animals I am following the law. I am the one that gets up at 4 am 365 days a year, I am the one who ensures they have water to drink all year round, food to eat, see the vet, regardless of the weather outside. When it’s -5 degrees at 4 am what were you doing? I was out making sure my animals were okay and had water and food. So I ask you Vicki, what do you understand about responsibility and Animal Welfare?

    • vicki says:

      Keith, what has been written in Agriculture pubs regarding horse slaughter is pure propaganda. It is illogical to say closing the plants caused the bottom to fall out of the market. First, closing the plants did not end slaughter. In fact, the same number of horses are being slaughtered. For the closings to have an impact, slaughter would have had to end. If you check with the auction houses, the prices remained steady until the end of 2008 which is the same time everything else in this country tanked. While it is a great piece of propaganda, the statistics do not support your statement. The horse industry is a $39B industry and makes their billions on live horses. Slaughter represents 3 cents on every $100 earned. Even if slaughter had ended, to say that the insignificant amount from slaughter would bring down the industry is quite humorous.

      I live in Illinois and Cavel was shut down because the people living in the community wanted the plant shut down. If you want to call the people living around the plant ARs, so be it. They had been trying for years before any advocates got involved. In Texas, there is a 1949 law that banned horse slaughter. That law was enacted by cattle ranchers so I guess they are ARs, as well.

      I’m glad you mentioned cull horses because that is indeed the cause of excess horses. It is not “unwanted” horses feeding the pipeline but from breeding more than there is a demand for. Every industry in this country has cut back production to meet a lower demand but for some reason, horse breeders don’t get it. Slaughter has not and will never control the population.

      Nobody said you were not responsible. My family is in farming and I am well aware of what it is like in brutal Illinois winters. We have many ranchers and farmers in our organization and they know the difference between raising food animals and raising horses. Cows are not raced for years, given bute and other banned substances and then shipped off to slaughter or going to slaughter because the breeder bred 50 but could only sell 3.

      Animal welfare doesn’t end at your farm. While I’m not involved in food animal issues, most abuses I’ve seen have been at the plants but that reflects negatively on the industry as a whole. I would think that farmers would be up in arms because of the negative impact it has on them. When the abuses are revealed, they are defended instead of being addressed.

      Equine welfare advocates are working on ending horse slaughter, not issues involving food animals. The horse industry and the meat industry are two separate and distinct industries. One earns from live animals and the other from dead animals. It is the Ag industry that keeps trying to blur the two and trying to portray the horse industry as a meat industry.

      Do you want equine welfare advocates getting involved in food animal issues? I would think that is a door that you don’t want to open.

      • KeithC says:

        And the point of my letter is not horses! It is not HORSES! Its the fact that AR’s cointinually take the route to stop it all instead of trying to fix the problem if there is one. No where do you see where Animal Rights organizations are working with USDA or Local DOA to refine or discuss changes, all you read about in local everyday newspapers is how certain organizations have 500,000+ signatures and they will use them if their demands are not met, however, that’s not a treat. When does a reminder become a threat, after 6 months of being reminded?

        So in summary, My Letter Is Not About Horses!

      • LynnIL says:

        Keith, So why then did you say this: “Animal Rights groups pushed to ban horse slaughter, used the argument that horses were not killed properly, were improperly transported and sometimes were being abused.

        Instead of passing laws to fix the problem and to mandate new slaughter practices, transport practices and stronger penalties for abuse, they had it banned completely.”

        So why do those in favor of horse slaughter not fix the problem? “Standards to prevent cruelty would be costly” as one who attended the Horse Slaughter Summit recently in Vegas said.

        Many of the people who are working to stop horse slaughter are not members of HSUS or PETA. Most are just ordinary people who see an injustice being done to horses and are steping up to the plate to excerise their First Amendment rights and object to the cruel and inhumane treatment of horses. And many things have been suggested but lobbyists stand in the way because their side stands to loose money. Its all about money. The suffering of an animal does not matter to them. When the slaughter houses were closed even the advocates were caught off guard. Yes we cheered but there were too many loopholes left open and this is where the horses are today. They are still going to slaughter. It is not the AR’s as you call us but it is the lobbyists who stand in the way of any progress being made. But you are on to something . We have found the biggest thing is that the laws already on the books are not being enforced. Like the law from 1949 that banned horse slaughter in Texas. It took until 2007 to enforce the law. When truckers drive around inspections and then crash or transport horses in double decker trailers, this tells you something too. The laws are ignored. The problems are not to be put on one group. It is all sides that need to find a solution. What is going on with the BLM and their wild horse round ups is a perfect example of solutions being ignored and its business as usual. We just do not want to see the horses or any animal suffer; something that should be the top of any animal caretakers list. Its too bad that so many have forgotten about caring for life, no matter if its animal or human. We are loosing the love for life and the lives of others. Too many love money more.

      • KeithC says:

        Lynn, I was trying to show a point that AR groups don’t even try to get better rules around animal cruelty, they simply go straight for the kill. As quoted from HSUS’s own website “”Today’s Supreme Court decision is a major milestone in our long-fought campaign to keep American horses from being slaughtered and shipped overseas for food,” said Jonathan Lovvorn, vice president of animal protection litigation for The HSUS” (here is the hyperlink http://www.humanesociety.org/news/press_releases/2008/06/supreme_court_denies_horse_slaughter_ban_appeal_061608.html). I was just making a comparison between what they did then and what is happening now.

        The Ban in Ohio was the brainchild of former Gov. Strickland but he did not even include the Animal Industry or attempt to make the ban fair, he just jumped on the Pacelle Bus. I am a member of oaao and we proudly stand by that fact that our animals are cared for and very humanely treated but that doesn’t matter to HSUS and anymore if you mention HSUS you start receiving backlash and threats of lawsuits because your saying something they don’t want to hear. Wayne Pacelle himself publicly stated that we are not an industry legitimate enough for him to hear our concerns however we did bring in 12.5 billion dollars to the State of Ohio.

        As a Veteran of the USAF I risked my life for my country, my state and the very citizens that never served so they could enjoy the right to voice their opinion. Problem is, that very freedom I have fought so they could have, they now use to take away my freedoms and then tell me that I am not allowed to say anything. I believe that all responsbile animal owners should have the right to raise animials they want. We enforce currently laws and maybe stiffen penalties to punish those that are not responsible but still we all know those that don’t follow the laws today, still won’t tomorrow. We must focus on that group and not punish those that are Animal Welfare and law abiding.

      • LynnIL says:

        Keith,
        Well now we do have something to agree with. YES our freedoms in all areas are being taken away. Why does the government have to keep getting in our business? But a lot of times it is because the scum bags just can’t do the right thing. And this is in many areas of our daily life. And I do agree that if laws are past they should be enforced and obeyed. Animal cruelty is the perfect example and most studies show that those who abuse animals do so to people too. So animal cruelty is something that needs stiffer penalties. But then there are just so many bad laws being written and “we the people” don’t even see them until it is too late. Or they are written in the dead of night behind closed doors and placed in bills hidden deep in the fabric so they won’t get noticed and get passed without a fight. These are the things that need to stop. These are the things that are taking our freedoms. We do agree there!

        And the government is not listen to the people. They just ignore us and do what they think is best. For who? For themselves and their political lives. These are thing we can agree on.

        And finally, your statement of “all responsible animal owners should have the right to raise animals they want” is the kicker. Being a responsible animal owner is all we ask. Be responsible for the animals welfare that you breed and/or own until death. Problem is too many are not responsible owners or care takers and then animals need to be protected.

  15. KeithC says:

    Lynn, when you say “we” who are you referring to?

  16. vicki says:

    Keith, in trying to make your point, you used faulty information about horses. Why keep bringing horse slaughter into the issue if what you were trying to discuss had nothing to do with horse slaughter?

    HSUS didn’t take credit for closing the IL plant. The article you referenced is a report stating that the IL Supreme court upheld the law banning horse slaughter in IL. There is nothing in the article stating HSUS is taking credit.

    I find it odd that we are accused of using emotional arguments and you never fail to mention your service to our country, which BTW, we all thank you for. Aren’t our freedoms being taken away? The overwhelming majority of Americans are against horse slaughter (according to Trent Loos, 9 out of 10 people) and yet, the beef lobby manages to block our legislation every session? Every session, one lone senator manages to stop the will of the people. Many in our group have fought in wars for this country so we could also use that same argument. Instead of allowing a vote, our voices are stifled by one senator.

    Haven’t welfare groups been complaining for decades about inhumane crates and handling of slaughter animals? I’ve seen many an interview with farmers that were up in arms about having to make changes and you know that if they weren’t forced to make changes, they would continue with the same practices. At the recent meeting in Las Vegas, a rancher stood up and thanked Temple Grandin for her suggestions on making the process more humane and his answer was, it would be costly. He claimed to speak for all ranchers in the room. Do you think he’s going to make changes unless he is forced to do so? Why is it that when given a choice to vote on legislation, the farming community opposes every bill brought forward? Haven’t you been voicing your freedoms by not making any changes and fighting every piece of legislation on animal welfare reform?

    Look at the horse slaughter plants. They have been in operation for decades. The cruelty has been exposed tenfold and yet, they make no changes. The recent investigations in Canada were more of the same that was exposed years before. The US plants were no better – just pull a few government FOIAs. Dallas Crown still owes the city of Kaufman TX $180k in fines. They play by their own rules and ignore laws. Our opponents claimed the plants were humane and we were being emotional but now all you see from them is they’re going to build a humane plant even though there is no such thing for horses. We’re they lying then or are they lying now? We were laughed at when we warned of the drugs in US horses. I guess it’s not so funny now, is it?

    There is no other non-food animal in America that we allow to be slaughtered. One could argue that slaughter supporters are taking away the freedom of horse owners by not allowing them to sell their horse without the fear of the horse ending up on a slaughter truck or living with the fear of their horse being stolen and sent to slaughter.

    • KeithC says:

      Vicki, you are the one that keeps bringing up horses, not I. I used the closing of the plants as a reference, which I have stated numerous times. I find it odd that HSUS’s own website has 4 pages of Mr. Pacelle showing his overly strong support, shall I list the url’s for those pages?

      HSUS doesn’t want anyone saying anything negative about them, that is what your job is, to try and make other readers believe HSUS is not an Animal Rights group and continually goes against their own founding principles that state not to interfer with legislation yet Wayne himself is registered as a lobbist in the state of MO. You keep bring up horses, you keep dragging this thread that direction. And please don’t tell me what article I read, there were several highly praised writers that documented HSUS involvement as well as your own website.

      • vicki says:

        Keith, if you hadn’t mentioned horses in your original article, we wouldn’t be having this discussion. The Ag pubs always have to bring horses into their drivel so if you don’t want equine advocates posting, then don’t mention horses. They have nothing to do with our food sources so why keep bringing them up? They are the horse industry, not the meat industry. If you make inaccurate statements about equines, you are going to hear from equine advocates.

        Go to any equine advocate website and you will see pages of links, articles, press releases, etc. in support of ending slaughter. Why should HSUS be singled out? I have two websites and probably have more information than HSUS. You gave them credit for passing the IL law and that is simply a false statement. The law was not passed because of HSUS involvement.

        My job is supporting initiatives of my organization. I am not here to defend HSUS. I was pointing out where I do not agree with you. HSUS is NOT advocating for animal rights. They advocate for humane treatment of animals. This is from their website – “We work to reduce suffering and improve the lives of all animals by advocating for better laws; investigating animal cruelty; encouraging corporations to adopt animal-friendly policies….” Where are you getting the statement about not interfering? Was that something you picked up from that bogus website whose sole purpose is to bash HSUS that uses quotes from 20 years ago? If so, I would suggest you look into who is behind that site and you will discover one of the wealthiest big corporate lobbyists in the country. 60 minutes called him Dr. Evil. We do our homework….

        Nobody has the right or freedom to treat animals inhumanely. If Ag cleaned up their act and stopped treating slaughter animals like tin cans there wouldn’t be a need to pass legislation.

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