LETTER: HSUS takes over Livestock Care Standards Board



So it’s happened. The radical vegan, anti-consumer Humane Society of the United States has successfully taken over the voter-created Ohio Livestock Care Standards Board hock, stock and flock.

It’s hard to believe that the board voted unanimously to adopt rules governing the housing of veal calves dictated by the fanatical leaders of the HSUS.

The intimidation of the members of the board by the HSUS was evidently so intense that what one week looked like a possible vote opposing the wishes of this scourge of the family farm (HSUS), turned a few weeks later into a unanimous vote in support of its demands.

So much for the wishes of the Ohio voters who in a lopsided victory (60-40,) voted to create this board. Other states applauded that decision, confident that finally an agency with real authority was going to stand up to the deep-pocket leadership of the HSUS.

But now the HSUS is crowing that Ohio has become its greatest victory to date. What was created to stop its march across the face of farm Ohio is now the very tool it’s using to further its agenda, not by little steps here and there, but by giant leaps and bounds.

So much for the Kasich administration and its conservative agenda. So typical. Run as a conservative Republican; govern like a liberal Democrat. The livestock board is chaired by Kasich’s agricultural secretary. In addition, two members were chosen by the leaders of the Republican-run House and Senate. All three voted with the Strickland appointees.

The Ohio Livestock Board has become the worst enemy of the Ohio family farm and consuming public. Look soon for the price of veal at the market and on the menu to be beyond the limits of your pocketbook.

Clyde Nehrenz

Sullivan, Ohio

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  1. Actually, it’s the consumers that finally have a say in what we are eating. HSUS is our mouthpiece.

  2. OMG! people wake up HSUS wants to do away with all animal human contact.they are not for the animals.

  3. Lord have mercy, the vegans are coming.

    And what is their ‘agenda’?

    They are going to starve the REST of us…all 99% of us… to death.

    Anyone think to run this by Tom Vilsack?

  4. Well let the voters of OHIO decide if they want veal crates or pig and chicken crates if you disagree with the OLCSB or HSUS.

    • That would be reasonable as long as Ohio’s veal pork & chicken are consumed ONLY by Ohioans and never leave the state.

  5. “Look soon for the price of veal at the market and on the menu to be beyond the limits of your pocketbook.” And dairy as well… One can only hope and work towards that end!

    The veal/dairy industry is one of the cruelest “uses” of animals. It’s shameful! These poor babies never allowed to suckle from their own mothers so that humans can (steal) have the milk instead. Sending “worthless” calves to slaughter with their umbilical cords still attached – Not even weaned they try to nurse on the fingers of the hands that shove them to their deaths.

    Anyone who thinks “dairy” is humane – See these statistics here:

    U.S. dairy producers sent 268000 dairy cows to slaughter through Federally inspected plants in March.

    Of course it would be different if humans actually required this cow’s milk to be healthy – But that couldn’t be further from the truth! There are many plant based alternatives that are just as satisfying and just as nutritious. Cow’s milk belongs to calves. Isn’t it high time adult humans learned to wean themselves?

    • Bea, I have said this before..

      Your decision to become a vegan is to be respected.
      But this forum is primarily a place for farmers and ranchers.
      To come here and preach veganism is, I believe, irresponsible.

      Vegans represent less than 1% of the population, and these are people who feed the 99% of the rest of us.

      We must fight inhumane conditions in farms with all our energy.

      But to fight to put farmers out of business is also inhumane.
      And an unrealistic and impractical waste of time and energy.
      Fight the bad farmers, support the good ones.

      • Nobody’s trying to put farmers out of business– *especially* not vegans (who would grow all our yummy plants?). We just want them to stop breeding and using sentient animals– especially since we don’t even need them in our diets for nutrition.

        Animal welfare doesn’t work. People have been fighting for the welfare of farmed animals for eons, and the conditions are worse than ever. Animal agriculture is also bad for the environment, which is truly the height of irresponsibility.

        HSUS has actually fought for welfare reforms that have led to higher efficiency, which means *more* money for farmers. They are not your enemy.

      • I keep hearing this unending whine that harmers and ranchers want to tell “their story”. What better place than here on the web with our ideas and views openly discussed?

        Truth is – I could not care less if I were the only one in the world who chose not to use animal lives and bodies to suit my frivolous wants. Your “1%” doesn’t sway me a bit. I too spend money on food in order to live and thrive… Funny thing though, I manage to do it just fine not supporting concentration camps for animals or slaughterhouses for victims – Not even the ones that play music before they slit the animal’s throats.

        Your concept of “inhumane” is entirely different than mine. I consider taking life WITHOUT NECESSITY to be cruel and inhumane. If I want to chop down a tree I don’t think it’s “unrealistic or impractical” to strike at the roots. Indeed that’s the only way it will ever be rid.

  6. Where have all the strong men gone? Better elect me to office. I can stand against a storm and not topple. I’ve been thinking for some time I was going to have to go up there and straighten things out with some common sense.

    • I ate today… I had oatmeal, almond milk, walnuts & raisins. For lunch I had asparagus, chick-peas and lima beans. Tonight I will have rice, black beans and yams… Probably followed by some vegan lemon bars and some flax seed milk — I thank the growers of my food plenty. They allow me to live. Not only physically but spiritually and emotionally as well. The “harmers” however? They offer me nothing but tears, despair and sorrow – Nothing nourishing in that I assure you.

  7. Alaska Congressman Don Young said on his own website: “HSUS are hypocrites, plain and simple, and I will not join them by accepting this award,” said Rep. Young. “Local animal shelters and humane societies do excellent work by caring for neglected and homeless animals, and through their spaying and neutering programs. This organization, however, has absolutely nothing to do with animal welfare. Instead they prey on the emotions of big-hearted Americans. They flash images of abused animals on our television screens to raise money that will eventually go to pay their salaries and pensions, not to helping better the lives of these animals. They run anti-hunting and anti-trapping campaigns and are of the same cloth as PETA and other extremist organizations.

    So, if HSUS is not an animal rights organization, where is the lawsuit against Mr. Young for calling them one publicly over the internet. Where is the lawsuit against Nebraska’s Governor for his media quotes calling them an Animal Rights organization?

    Why will no one that supports, or is an employee of, HSUS tell us where 98.2% of the “charitable” funds actually go?

    Why is the Ohio Director of HSUS a co-director of Ohioans for Humane Farms along with the Director of Virginia HSUS? Seems odd to call it “Ohioans” when 1/2 of the leadership isn’t even an Ohio Resident.

    How many more “Twisted” perceptions can HSUS spin out of Maryland.

    One more for the road….If Wayne is so concerned with Animal Welfare and “Doing the right thing” why is he not donating 100% of the profits from his book to Local Humane Societies that need the funds and actually perform hands-on care?

  8. Sadly, logic and facts don’t matter to people like Laura Foster and Bea Elliott. They know the truth. Farming is cruel. Eating “sentient” animals is a sin. Sadly, they can’t seem to see beyond the end of the rhetoric they believe in (promoted by lawyers, lobbyists and journalists) to look at the unintended (or actually, very much intended by some) consequences. No more large animals, or even, for that matter, not so large one. More people dieing of starvation and/or malnutrition (not sure there’s a difference)

    Actually, their success will solve many of the worlds problems, – hunger, global warming, etc by getting rid of the root cause – all those pesky animals like cows, chickens and people! What could be better!

    • Smartysmom, it makes very little sense for us to breed into existence billions (yes billions) of land animals every year and feed them 40% of our grains when there are PEOPLE starving. Human consumption of animals actually *aggravates* world hunger. This is a well documented fact.

      In regard to the environment, the UN is urging the world toward a vegan diet to ward off the worst damages of climate change.

      There are enormous dead zones in our oceans from animal agriculture run off. It also poisons our drinking water. All of this is well documented and open to the public to explore.

      It’s the meat and dairy lobby who have their hands in the government’s pockets, so they can hide the realities from the general public. Not the other way around.

    • Laura, please provide these facts from a source other than one that is run by or backed financially by HSUS to support your claims. Geology has shown that the tectonic plates are moving around the globe. Antarctica was once an actual desert that never saw freezing temps but now is locked in snow and ice year round. Our whole planet is changing and it has nothing to do with Agriculture, plant or animal.

      • The United Nations is run by HSUS? I posted a link to the UN study, but, unfortunately, it disappeared. Here’s the link again; you might have to copy and paste it:


        I am not aligned with, nor am I a proponent of HSUS– in fact we have very different approaches and ideas about animals and our use of them.

        The TEN BILLION land animals that are bred into existence and raised for food take up valuable land and resources. That’s the big picture.

    • I too agree with Laura that it is very inefficient and wasteful to filter all our food through animals first offering a 6 to 1 yield. Talk about people starving because we insist on a “meat based diet”!

      No, I’m quite tired of competing with animals for food, water, land, etc. I seriously doubt that in the next 10,000 years even if the whole world went “veg” over tonight that that would cause chickens, cows and pigs to go extinct. Even so… If that were the case – Such a system that breeds sentient beings just to kill and eat does not belong in our evolved future.

      • Bea, Tibetan Buddhism and Japanese Buddhism believe all beings (including plant life and even inanimate objects or entities considered “spiritual” or “metaphysical” by conventional Western thought) are or may be considered sentient beings.

      • But Keith – I am not a Tibetan monk or a Buddhist. Are you? Or are you a rational being who can grasp that the pain and suffering felt by a cat, dog, mouse, pig or cow is the same pain you would feel with the same injuries as a cause? Are you inferring that carrots “scream”, that beans “cry” or that the apple tree “mourns” for it’s young when you pick the fruit from the limb?

        I’m sure there are many religions that see a connectivity amongst all living “things”… Should they have any consistency in these views I’m sure they acknowledge that “sentience” is reserved exclusively to beings that breath… And have brains… And central nervous systems. These creatures are “aware” of the world around them… They KNOW they exist in this world. Cabbage? Not hardly.

        Finally, if you’re at all concerned with “plant pain” – It still would behoove us to eat a plant based diet as we could avoid all that needless “suffering” by crops if we ate the plants directly instead of inefficiently filtering them through other animals first. ;)

  9. The Ohio Livestock Board is not the worst enemy of the consumer, as long as they listen to the consumers’ concerns.
    We don’t want tortured animals on our plates. No one is stopping the farmers from raising pork and beef. If you must eat meat, then by all means, do so. Just make sure you are raising them and slaughtering them humanely. If it raises the prices, so what? Eat less meat and more whole grains, legumes and veggies. More and more people are going vegetarian and vegan because they don’t want any part of the cruelty involved with getting the meat to their plates. People want to “see” what is going on behind the barn door. Put cameras up and you will prove there is nothing to hide.

    • Please step forward Sookie and install yours first. How do we know your not abusing your veggies. Hacking them, shredding them, boiling them. Who knows what else may be hiding behind your “closed doors” that the world should know about.

      Once again the HSUS pushes legislation that does nothing to stop true abuse of animals but only hinders those that already abide by rules. You can up the penalty all you want however those that don’t follow the law now, still won’t so only the good people are punished.

  10. Yes Clyde-you are completely correct. I do need to add, however, that absolutely NONE of the farmers I know of were approached in ANYWAY whatsoever about ANYTHING to do with the Livestock Careboard-not even asked to submit any candidates or to vote in anyway whatsoever who would represent them. Evidently they were handpicked by Farm Bureau and the other SOBs that sold us farmers out…just puppets on their string to do as they wished-NOT what they were supposed to do. I also need to add that 3 times I tried to contact the board to see when and where meetings were to take place-and NEVER had my messages returned. I even had sent a proposal to Zehringer to submit to the board-again, he never had the decency to acknowlede or forward my proposal. The truth is that they DONT CARE about what farmers have to say or the scientific data that CLEARLY backs up modern animal husbandry practices. One of them was so blatantly ruthless as to fellow producers, he voted against them, knowing that over half of the producers would be forced out of business due to that vote-pathetically allowing his own greed to dictate his vote. The completely ironic thing is that not only do the AR groups say that tieing veal calves is inhumane, but recently are complaining that the very thing tieing calves prevents-sucking on each other/themselves-is also inhumane…the stupid morons will not admit they are clueless when it comes to taking care of animals, but yet attack farmers who know what they are doing. They truely dont care about animals.

    And, as usual, we have the hippocrits commenting here. It is OK for them to brutally kill and mame innocent plantlife-but inhumane to use animals for food. They pathetically feel they have the right to tell everyone what they can or cant eat. I got news for them…they are NOT any better than those who consume animal products and they do NOT have any right to tell others what they can or cant eat. Their antics are becoming so absurd it is no longer funny. Their minds are warped-probably due to not consuming proper nutrition-which includes animal products..take your vegan crap and put it where the sun doesnt shine-we are sick of hearing your twisted sick mentality…we dont tell you what to eat and you have NO right to tell us what to eat. And take your extremely biased links with you…they are completely flawed. This country (and the world) is falling apart from people like them-people who think their way of thinking is the only way and that everyone should live and believe like them…We need to continue to stand up them and their communist bullying.

    • Hi FED-UP & PO’d farmer… It isn’t only “AR groups” that say tying “calves is inhumane” but most people say this… And I don’t know… I think most “stupid morons” would know that animals don’t wish to be confined or killed. In fact I’d even say YOU probably know this — But just choose to ignore it… Well, because paying attention to this part doesn’t make you any money – Does it?

      “It is OK for them to brutally kill and mame innocent plantlife-but inhumane to use animals for food.” Please see my earlier post about “plant sentience”. (thanks)

      “They pathetically feel they have the right to tell everyone what they can or cant eat.” I certainly have a right to advocate for a more peaceful, healthy and just world. I really have no issue with what anyone chooses to eat – As long as that “choice” didn’t require UNNECESSARY bloodshed. When it does – Not only to I have a “right” to speak out against these ills – But I have a moral responsibility to do so. If YOU were being confined and killed for no good reason – Wouldn’t you want someone to speak up in your defense?

      “Their minds are warped-probably due to not consuming proper nutrition-which includes animal products..” And you are a nutritionalist we’re assuming. What exactly is it that you think plants can’t provide in a healthy diet? Being that I (and millions of others) have glowing health without the meat/eggs/dairy — I’d LOVE to hear what you think we’re lacking.

      “we are sick of hearing your twisted sick mentality” – Wait a second… Most AR advocates and vegans that I know of advocate a more peaceful, just world. They call for the examination of needless slaughter of the innocent. They protest wasteful use of land and water… Exactly what is “twisted” or “sick” about wanting to improve these issues?

      Finally – Your end rant about the world falling apart due to “communist bullying” — I think the world would do quite well without the factory farms and the slaughterhouses. It would also be a great improvement if the most abused and exploited victims among us (the “farmed” animals) were “freed” from the bullying that is necessary to get each and everyone to the kill floor. I KNOW who the bullies are – If the shoe fits Mr.FED-UP &PO’d farmer — Then wear it!

      • First of all, confining animals does NOT cause them ANY pain or suffering-and actually PROTECTS them not only from other animals-but also from themselves. This is completely evident from the just released video whereby a farmer is being deemed cruel in part where a calf actually sucks itself and caused severe lesions due to its self-destructive behavior. We farmers know this-THAT is why veal calves are tied-so that they do NOT exhibit this behavior…and while we are at it, animals ROUTINELY kill and maim each other-I have seen several instances whereby a cow kills her own calf, sheep butt each other to death, chickens FREQUENTLY kill and eat each other, and so on…To put human characteristics into animals is not only completely wrong-but it shows a VAST ignorance of animal behavior-but when someone who has absolutely NO experience raising animals refuses to listen to those who have extensive experience, they fall into the “stupid moron” catagory.

        Humans are the dominate species, thereby are able to dominate the lower ones. For those who are of Faith, God clearly gave man dominance over animals and also the right to eat animal flesh. For those not of Faith, “mother nature” made man to be omnivorous-eating meat and plant matter. Just WHO do YOU think you are to tell anyone different??? I’ll tell you-NO ONE-period!!! It is pathetically sad that you feel your way of thinking should be deemed correct. I DONT CARE WHAT YOU THINK-BUT YOU HAVE NO RIGHT TO TELL ME MY WAY OF THINKING IS WRONG-NONE WHATSOEVER!!! Your defense that animals cant defend themselves is no different than saying that plants cant defend themselves-your feeling that plants are lower life forms is no different than meat-eaters feeling that animals are lower life forms and may be consumed also.

        There have been NUMEROUS studies showing that children and unborn babies have been irreparably damaged due to being forced on a vegan diet-and, yes, I HAVE had nutritional courses in college-and ALL the professors stated that vegan diet WAS NOT reccomended for children and that adults should work with registered dieticians if they choose to go on a vegan diet.

        You are a complete hippocrit to say that you vegans want a peaceful world when you continually attack livestock farmers…it is a sick joke-NONE of us farmers have attacked you vegans or tell you how to live and what to eat-but you continually attack, belittle and spread outright lies against us farmers-AND the methods used by farmers.

        You have been clearly brainwashed…when you start freeing innocent plant life from being abused and exploited, then you can start freeing “abused and exploited” animals….and, by the way-my shoes fit me exactly-and if any of you self-righteous arrogant hippocrits come and try to push your beliefs on me, you will know what size they are-and you will need your extra fiber to help you rid them from one of your bodily orifices.

      • Hi FED-UP &PO’d farmer! I’m not all that certain that restricting an animal from doing what is instinctually in their make up to do doesn’t cause suffering. I’d have to say the use of any living being’s limbs is something nature invites and encourages animals to do. And as an aside – Can we agree that you are “protecting” these animals so that man can be the top predator? So there’s really no virtuous “unselfish” deed taking place here in “protecting” them – Correct?

        No one is putting “human characteristics” into animals – But there is a fundamental sameness that we all share. We all desire freedom to do and go where we want – And we all wish to protect our bodies and lives from damage. This is universal – whether we’re talking frogs, pigs or humans. No one has to raise animals to know these things. A child’s simple observation of the natural world will confirm the fact that all beings wish to live!

        And so your “gOd” says such and such – You don’t want to be challenged on this “faith”. Well, my “gOd” might say entirely different! My “gOd” might say that it is wrong to kill the innocent and that it is my duty to Truth to reveal these unnecessary, cruel brutalities every chance I get. And just for clarification – There are many “religions” that believe in the sanctity of all life… And that the “first rule” of not killing applied to ALL beings before it became profitable to warp the original intent of that mandate. In the end though, we all choose to believe what we will – making all “bibles” (written by man) subject to man’s interpretation. Me? I choose to believe in a merciful, compassionate and loving dieity. One who would never, ever condone the brutalization of his/her autonomous creations. That’s why the Earth is filled with abundant, edible nutrition! Genesis 1:29
        And God said, Behold, I have given you every herb bearing seed, which is on the face of all the earth, and every tree, in the which is the fruit of a tree yielding seed; to you it shall be for meat.
        There are many versions of many bibles that have this same message.

        So let me get this right… I have no voice in trying to prevent the mass killing of innocent life – But YOU have been given “permission” (by god) to take it at your want for monetary gain?

        You say “Your defense that animals cant defend themselves is no different than saying that plants cant defend themselves-your feeling that plants are lower life forms is no different than meat-eaters feeling that animals are lower life forms and may be consumed also.” It is not my “feeling” that plants do not experiencde pain/suffering like we animals can – It is FACT — Biology 101: Animal – Vegetable – Mineral. The latter two have no awareness and no central nervous system. We animals possess both. Sorry.

        Now… On “lower life forms”… I can honestly say that my dog is smarter than the newborn baby my neighbor just gave birth to. In fact, it will be quite a few years till this infant even learns to control his bowels – Are his parents free to do whatever they wish to him because he currently lacks “superior” intelligence? There are thousands of patients who exist on life support systems – Essentially they are “brain dead” – Am I free to harvest their organs? Didn’t think so… So your claim to the “right” of “lesser life” fails the test of ethical consistency.

        “I HAVE had nutritional courses in college-and ALL the professors stated that vegan diet WAS NOT reccomended for children and that adults should work with registered dieticians if they choose to go on a vegan diet.” Really? You might want to inform the American Dietetic Association because they say: “that appropriately planned vegetarian diets, including total vegetarian or vegan diets, are healthful, nutritionally adequate, and may provide health benefits in the prevention and treatment of certain diseases. Well-planned vegetarian diets are appropriate for individuals during all stages of the life cycle, including pregnancy, lactation, infancy, childhood, and adolescence, and for athletes.”
        And my doctor… And my husband’s say the same thing. In fact, Bill Clinton who can afford THE BEST health care in the world has doctors that also approve of his plant based diet.

        I don’t believe I have “attacked” anyone – My intent like millions of others is to bring a truth to the discussion about “meat” that has not been examined with such rigger since the dawn of man. To proceed on a course without inspection of underlying truths IS remaining “brainwashed”. I know – I was a “meat eater” for 50 years! Never crossed my mind that there was a better way! I assure you no one is “spreading lies” – Only revealing truths: We do not “need” to eat flesh in order to be healthy. Killing animals without “need” is not the way an enlightened culture ought to proceed. It is a flawed system that’s bad for human health, harmful to the environment and a living nightmare for the animals!

  11. Gee, there must be something funny in your water..

    I spent every summer till I was 15 on my grandparents farm in Arkansas.
    Never saw any cow or chicken homicide…
    There was a very naughty fox one summer..Got into the hen house and did some damage…
    The noise scared the bejesus out of me.
    Other than that, all the creatures were healthy and happy.
    The goats did some head butting or whatever you call it and we were taught to stay far away from them.
    No sheep though.
    Maybe they are the instigators.

    • So just because you spent time on a place that had animals makes you qualified to dictate how to raise animals??? Gee-when I was young, I spent time with an Apollo astronaut that had orbited the moon..guess that makes me qualified to tell NASA how to run their space program. I guess that makes people who grew up with someone who was a surgeon qualified to perform surgeries…people who grew up with CEO and upper management qualified to tell companies how to be run, and so on. Never knew that someone who had absolutely NO knowlegde obout something was qualified to be an “expert” on it.

      By the way, ANY one who truely knows about animals knows they DO kill each other-especially chickens. It is so common that any knowlegable books on them contain chapters just about cannabalism. Must be nice to be a know-it-all and feel you have the right to tell others how to live…Your hero Hitler would be proud of you.

      • You’re comparing peace-loving VEGANS to Hitler, when YOU house animals in concentration camps and needlessly murder them for money and pleasure?

        Do you ever consider WHY calves suckle themselves to the point of mutilation?! Do you ever consider that they, like every mammalian baby, instinctively wants his/ her MOTHER’S milk?

        The American Dietetic Association (America’s authority on nutrition) says that vegan diets are appropriate for ALL stages of life (please provide a source that demonstrates otherwise, or GTFO), and The United Nations (who is urging the world toward a vegan diet) is NOT “extremely biased”, as you say.

        The world is waking up to your sickening use of nonhumans (you *know* this, otherwise you wouldn’t be so upset)– best get ahead of the curve and start growing plants for human consumption.

      • Yes, chickens may cannibalize each other especially when they are confined in areas where they aren’t even allowed a foot of distance from the rotting carcass.

        I happen to live with a small flock of rescued factory farmed “egg hens”. They have more than ample space to dust bath, forage and even fly when they desire to! In more than 3 years I’ve never witnessed them “kill” or “eat” each other. Ah… But humans have done so many times!

  12. God, or Mother Nature if you will gave me teeth to eat flesh. Its natural and normal human behavior. If Nature only intended that I eat nuts and grass, my teeth would reflect that fact. End of discussion as far as Im concerned.

    • Well, if that’s truly the end of the discussion in your eyes, then you should know that your teeth are most similar to an HERBIVORE’S. How embarrassing for you…. ;)

      • Actually they are OMNIVORE teeth..so as to eat flesh and veggies…so I am not going to deny myself what mother nature intended me to eat.

  13. Right, We are omnivores who lean way, way toward herbivore. Again, our teeth are most *similar* to that of an herbivore’s.

    But our teeth are not really the point. The real point here is the idea of *avoidable* harm. Eating animals and their secretions is 100% AVOIDABLE. Humans are known to thrive on plant based diets, so why cause unnecessary, avoidable harm when you don’t have to?

    • I can’t help but be dismayed that in the 21st century we’re still attempting to align our ethics with our dentures. It’s true that it is a false notion that our bodies can only thrive by consuming flesh. This just isn’t so. For those that require direct analysis perhaps Dr. Milton Mills can explain further in The Comparative Anatomy of Eating:

      One might also question why it is that the top 5 causes of food safety hazards are meat, eggs and dairy:

      Finally, the core of the argument does not change: Man can thrive on a plant based diet. And causing unnecessary harm to innocent life needs more “justification” than taste, economics or habit. If one takes it upon himself to tout a “right” to an Other’s life – It needs to be substantiated on something equally as meaningful as validation. Thus far I’ve heard nothing from “meat” advocates to support those views. Unnecessary killing is wrong (period).

      • “Man can thrive on a plant based diet”
        “Unnecessary killing is wrong (period).”

        Seems unnatural to artificially limits one diet. Animals eat what they are
        designed to eat. Animals eat meat in nature. Man is an animal. Man is part of nature. Man was made to partake in meat. Man eats meat. Thus meat eating seems only natural and moral to me. Killing for food is part of the “circle of life”

        Doing what we were made to do (eating animals)

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